"Ugh, that sales experience gave me the heebee jeebees!" We've all been there. A salesman that was too aggressive and pushy. A saleswoman duped you into upgrading your account when you didn't need to in a sleazy way. And countless other examples of bad sales experiences.
Today's guest, Travis Albritton, joins me as we talk about honest marketing. Travis and I go way back -- to the start of this podcast in 2018.
In our chat, we discuss the good, the bad, and the ugly of marketing - specifically for online businesses. You'll walk away from this convo with a reality check on your marketing and lessons learned to help you make better business decisions.
"Ugh, that sales experience gave me the heebee jeebees!" We've all been there. A salesman that was too aggressive and pushy. A saleswoman duped you into upgrading your account when you didn't need to in a sleazy way. And countless other examples of bad sales experiences.
Today's guest, Travis Albritton, joins me as we talk about honest marketing. Travis and I go way back -- to the start of this podcast in 2018.
In our chat, we discuss the good, the bad, and the ugly of marketing - specifically for online businesses. You'll walk away from this convo with a reality check on your marketing and lessons learned to help you make better business decisions.
I love a reunion. Right? Like, did you love the friends reunion that they did? I mean, it was so good. I loved how, you know, it was so nostalgic. I cried. I mean, come on, I'm so embarrassed. But whatever, I cried at just so many different things, because the actors were overwhelmed by things. And it was just it was so beautiful to see them revisit this nostalgic, I mean pop culture phenomenon that lives in American history of like the greatest show of all time, let's just be honest, like, it's so incredible. I love friends, love, love, love it. And I just love the idea of these people that haven't seen each other in a while getting back together and reminiscing about all the good old days. Well, that's a little bit about today's guests. And I'm so excited to share with you because we have someone that has literally been a part of my podcasting journey from day one. And we have such a special bond like such a cool connection. And I'm so grateful that Travis Allbritton is coming back on the show today. So Travis has been somebody, like I said, from the very beginning, I remember when I first got started, and y'all can go back and listen to I'm gonna link in the show notes to the original interview that I did with Travis. And I want you to go listen to Krystal like baby podcast or baby content creator. And I had all the questions for him. And I actually, I'm laughing at it because I remember when the Facebook group for Buzzsprout was around 2000 people. And Travis was the one that was, you know, admitting people answering questions like he was running the whole thing. He was the head of content at Buzzsprout for a long time, like you will instantaneously know His voice. If you have listened to any episodes of Buzz cast, which is Buzz sprouts podcast, or watch their content on YouTube. You're gonna like oh my gosh, yeah, I know exactly who Travis is. But Travis is actually doing something brand new, that I am so thrilled about whenever he told me what he was doing. I was like, this is incredible for you, and I just cannot wait to share it. But Travis is now today the host of honest marketing, which is a podcast dedicated to teaching business owners and entrepreneurs proven strategies to grow their business without selling their soul. He also is the founder of honest podcast, a full service podcast production agency that specializes in high quality video podcasts for distribution on YouTube, Apple podcast and Spotify. So without further ado, here is my conversation with Travis. Let's get right to it. Welcome to the Prophet podcast where we teach you how to start launch and market your content with confidence. I'm your host, Krystal Proffitt, and I'm so excited that you're here. Thanks for hanging out with me today. Because if you've been trying to figure out the world of content creation, this is the show that will help be your time saving shortcut. So let's get right to it, shall we? All right, Prophet podcast listeners, we have a very special guest today we have Travis in the house. Welcome to the show, Travis.
Travis Albritton:Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.
Krystal Proffitt:Yeah, so this is actually I was trying to think back. You guessed it on the show when it was the rookie life like way back when and then you came on the show. Again, one of those the profit podcast I was thinking or maybe I'm thinking it could have been, I don't know, we're gonna link to all the previous episodes of Travis because he is somebody that you've been there since the beginning of my journey, like in a really profound way. And I'm gonna embarrass you for a second because I can because it's because it's my show and I'm in the host teachers point. Okay. Travis helped me tremendously in the very beginning. So we're going to make us feel old, this 2018 When I got started, Travis answered all of my annoying questions with so much patience and so much just generosity. And I have to say thank you so much, because we would not be sitting here today, talking about all the fun things we're going to talk about. So thank you so much for always encouraging me and being part of this journey. So I couldn't let this episode go any farther without getting that off my chest. So sincerely, thank you so much.
Travis Albritton:Oh, that means a lot. Thank you so much, Krystal, glad glad that I can just be one of the people on the path to your greatness and all
Krystal Proffitt:your greatness to your world domination. So happy well If anybody is listening, and you're like, Travis voice sounds really familiar, it's because you would have heard him here on the show, or on other podcast, or possibly a YouTube channel that you're all familiar with, because I reference it all the time. But Travis is coming to us, not for Buzzsprout. Today, Travis is coming on a brand new adventure that he has started. And I cannot wait to talk all about it, because he has a brand new show called Honest marketing. And I just have to know, where did this come from, I have a feeling as a marketer, there was a deep need that you were seeing. And I just, I have to know, I have to know where this idea came from.
Travis Albritton:Sure. So I'll share that the fun piece of the story, and then I'll break down the strategy of it as well. Awesome, because I know that'll be really relevant and helpful for all your listeners. So I think, being in the marketing space, and doing content marketing for Buzzsprout, for four years, doing digital marketing for six or seven, you see a lot of advice. And you see a lot of trends, okay. And so a lot of the advice tends to be towards the entrepreneur, because just practically, that's the person that's spending money on the software or the tool, the course to get the results they want, which is how do we make more money online. But rarely is the advice, what's in the best interests of your customers of the people buying that course of the people going through your funnel, experiencing your website. And I was just kind of like fed up that there wasn't more resources out there talking about how to actually mark it with integrity, because it's totally possible. And you actually make more money, if people feel like they can trust you, and that you're not just trying to screw them over all the time. And so that's where the idea for honest marketing came from was, let's just start highlighting the people that are doing this the right way, that are building businesses the right way on top of integrity and values, and really breaking down the systems and processes that businesses can use. And marketers can use in order to get similar results that they would in a performance or you know, pay per click model, but with a more holistic service oriented approach towards your clients and your customers. And so you're thinking about your brand, and what people know you for and the reputation you have in the space. And you're thinking about how to actually do good in the world with your podcasts. It's not just about making money, but it's about doing something that's worthwhile. And so that's where the spark came from, just like this desire to say, You know what we're going to, we're going to shift the narrative here, it's not just going to be about how do we increase your opt in rate by 2%, by creating some fake scarcity and a countdown timer that doesn't do anything to try and get people to get you the credit card before they even know that they weren't the thing? Like, let's just get rid of all that and go back to how do you solve real problems for people in their lives, and help them feel seen and heard, and that they can trust you to take care of them in the journey, like, let's just get back to that. And so that's really what it is. But in a online world, so breaking down content marketing, digital marketing, paid ads, campaigns, all that stuff. Strategically, why it makes sense for me to do this podcast because being at Buzzsprout, and be in the podcasting world, you know, there's never a lack of things to talk about, especially if you love to hear yourself talk. And so, so it's like, are you looking at me when you said that? I was looking at the camera, because I know that's what I'm supposed to be doing. You know, that's, that's where you look, you look at the camera, you don't. So but podcasters love to talk, it's just it's why we do it. Right? If you didn't like to hear yourself talk, you wouldn't do a podcast. But so so my new business venture that you kind of teased, I launched a podcast production agency called Honest podcasts. And it's helping values oriented business owners and entrepreneurs create content marketing that aligns with our business values that helps drive performance for their business. And so that is what I do as an agency, that's my service in the marketplace is your business, you want to make an epic podcast, I can do that for you. So then the podcast was not only a way for me to lead with my values, and to attract people that would resonate with that they're like, yeah, like, I shouldn't have to sell my soul in order to make money online, like there has to be a better way. And so maybe there can be a connection there. But then, by using it as a platform to interview potential clients, then it's much easier to get someone who's in a position at a company that would be interested in in service like mine, to give you an hour of their time. It's very difficult to do in like a cold call or cold email sense to be like, Hey, I do this great thing. Can I get an hour on your calendar? It's like, no, I got I got my own life. I got all this stuff going on. But if I extend an olive branch and say I would love to bring you on to talk about these three things that I know you're an expert in and highlight your expertise and what your business does to my audience. And this is the values that we share in the connection that we have Now we have an entire hour to build rapport, and to build a relationship. And now I have your contact info. And we've actually had a dialogue and a conversation. So now if it doesn't make sense, and you're like, actually, this has been a great experience, I have enjoyed being on your podcast. What would it look like for you to do that for us? Like, what would a podcast for our company look like? It's a very natural next step. So strategically, using the podcast, not just a way of serving people, which it certainly is, and most of the people that listen to it will never give me money. And I'm really excited about that. But it's also a great vehicle to connect with people that would otherwise be unreachable as a way of also growing the business as well. So that's how the podcast came together.
Krystal Proffitt:So there y'all go, you have his whole strategy there. It's all honest, it is so straightforward. But this is the thing that I love about this model is because you're not trying to like bait and switch people and say, Hey, we should do this. Like it. I think that a lot of people, especially for my show, and I'm sure you've experienced this too, having run several podcast, it's like, you can feel that slime Enos and a pitch where it's like, oh, I would love to come on your show, or we'd love to have you on our show. And this and that. So I think that this is such an incredible approach, if executed properly. And Travis just gave you all the things it's all about just bleeding with integrity. But I have to ask, is there like this one awful experience that you ever had with marketing that like really comes to mind that you're like, Oh, if I ever had a platform or an opportunity to write this wrong? Like, is there anything that's coming to mind? Oh, 100%.
Travis Albritton:And I actually share this in the first episode that I do for the show. When I break down my laws of honest marketing, and and one of the laws of honest marketing, which I totally made up, but you know, the written in semi stone, and if other people take it, I trademarked it. So you heard it here is, is actually a riff on the PETA pledge People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. And it's, can you say, No, humans were harmed in the marketing of your product or service? Can you actually stand behind that and say, that is the standard we hold ourselves to, not just does our product help people, but in the process of learning about what we do. And in the process of becoming a customer, can we say that we did not harm them in any particular way, lean into a trauma in their life, to twist the knife and say, here's a big problem, let's make it bigger. So you'll give us money. And for me, the story you're referring to that you kind of intuitively knew was there, I was doing a launch, I was doing a product launch. So also, in my past, I had an online teaching ministry, I was selling courses, memberships, coaching, helping leaders start online ministries, and I was doing a big launch. And so I had several upsells built into it, it's like, well, if you want this program, you might also like this one. And you might also like this one, this is a way of helping continue to serve people and give them more resources to help them with what they wanted to do next. But I would use some of these best practices, industry best practices for maximizing your profit...
Krystal Proffitt:For everybody listening, he just put quotes around best practices,
Travis Albritton:"best practices"
Krystal Proffitt:We have to make sure that that was...
Travis Albritton:yeah - air quotes, best practices. And it's like, Hey, if you just like make this change, you'll get this much more money. And I'm like, that sounds great. Why would I not want that. So at the end of that launch, I immediately had people turn around and say, I need to cancel, I want my money back. Not because I don't believe in the product and what you're doing. But because of how it made me feel to buy it. Because of the pressure I felt to make a quick decision in the moment on something I didn't feel fully informed about. And if that is how the rest of this relationship is going to be, then this isn't going to be a fit for me. And that really stung, right? Because here I am trying to help people, especially in like a Christian space, just like, there's a lot of weight attached to that. And they're feeling like I'm being manipulative of their emotions in order to get more money. And so so that's really stuck with me. And I think that was really a key pivot point for me where I said, you know, what, there actually is a point in time where it's not worth it anymore. Where that extra couple dollars. It's just not worth it to me, because there are other things that are more important than how profitable lunch can be, or how profitable a marketing campaign could be. But I actually want people to have a positive experience of me, and to have a positive brand affinity, if you can call it that, where whenever they think about me, it's always about Travis is here to help. And that's the only impression they get and there's no sense of manipulation of coercion of just like persuading someone to make a decision is not good for them, but just good for me. Like I never want any of that to even be hinted at in anything that I do. But that came from experience that came from a really sour taste in my mouth of wow, this is what these incremental decisions made with the best of intent have led me to let me get as far away from that as I possibly can.
Krystal Proffitt:Yeah, Ah, man, I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. Because I'm imagining I've had a similar experience. And there's a visceral like full body when you're reading these words from someone and you know that that wasn't your initial intention. And you had no, no way of ever thinking that that's what was happening on the back end of for your customer. And then you see it. And then you look at everything in hindsight, and you're like, oh, my gosh, like, that's exactly what I did. And you could say, I'm sorry, 1000 times. And of course, it's probably not going to matter to that person. But I think that you're doing such an incredible thing and taking it and making sure that other people know, there is a better way. And there's another way to do it. But I'm curious if in looking back, like let's say you go back to that launch, and someone's listening right now, and they're just getting started. And they're like, well, Travis, I don't know if I've ever done any of these things. But I know for sure I want to avoid them. Do you have any tips for if someone's laying out? Let's say they're laying out a launch for the new year, and they're looking at their podcasts or looking at their website, they're looking at their emails and all the things that they're going to incorporate in there? Do you kind of apply the same principles throughout everything? Or do you do very specific things for each different platform?
Travis Albritton:So I think it starts first with what is the filter that you're going to make those decisions with, because that's the easiest, like simple solution. So because the techniques and everything will change, they change all the time, right? It used to be you have these big live launches, and now evergreen webinars are back. So it's always kind of circulating and coming around. So I think whenever you're thinking about a decision, whether you're writing an email, creating sales, copy for a landing page, putting together a webinar, a pitch, ask yourself, how would I feel, if I told my best friend to go through this process? With a come out on the other side, like, that's you 100% I felt you and your personality and everything you stand for through the whole process? Or would they come away? thinking, wow, like, that's not the you that I know, that is a helpful filter? Because then that'll help you decide like, should I put this countdown timer here at the top of the page to get more people to click on it? But I know like it's just going to reset on Thursday? Mm hmm. Well, how would I feel if my best friend found out that she made a purchase, or he made a purchase because the time was running out, but it just reset on just resets on Thursday? Then they found out about that, like, would that negatively impacts the relationship? Probably, right. So if you're gonna have a countdown timer have it actually means something. So like, I think those, once you have that filter in place of, I don't want to do anything that would hurt my best friend, if they were going to this process, or heard our relationship in any way, then that gives you the decision making to know what to do what not to do, what to emphasize, not emphasize, you know, and then I think at some point, also believing that some of it is just not going to be up to you. Like when it comes to a launch, it's so easy to get wrapped up in the numbers and dissect every little thing. And okay, this thing went wrong. So that's my fault, this thing went wrong. So that's my fault. You know, I'll never forget, I did a launch in January for products. And I did$25,000. I did the exact same launch in June, two, twice as many people and only cleared$15,000. And it was better. So it's like, is that my fault? I have no idea. Things happen. Yeah, it's not always your fault. It's not Oh, and, and so. So once you accept that the things are going to happen outside of your control, that allows you to just show up with a service oriented mind, and to say whatever this is going to be it's going to be and I'm going to be pumped and excited that I'm taking incremental steps forward with wherever you are in the journey, I think there's so much pressure to just like, have a big launch, or to grow really quickly, and be able to have these big numbers that, you know, become case studies for other people. But most people that I know that are successful in the online space, they've been doing it for 10 years, 15 years. And so it's not that they had this like one big launch turning point is that they built up skills over time until they became the best at what they did. And then that's why people do business with them. So I think if you can have the patience to have small launches, and to have, you know, months where you just do like $100 But you know, like nonIS I'm in this for the long haul. I'm in this not because I'm just trying to make money but because I really want to help people. I'm excited about what I get to do. Then everything becomes a lot easier to be patient and you don't have to press as much you don't have to try and squeeze every dollar out of everything. You can just say I just want to make my imprint on the world with my business and I want my clients, my customers to come away better for it. And if you can have the patience, that, you know, it doesn't have to be, just knock it out of the ballpark, then that also allows you to feel really good about what you're doing
Krystal Proffitt:too. I love that everything that you just said, it not only follows the principles of honest marketing, but it doesn't have the hustle culture attached to it. I know, I feel like right now. Well, we're recording this. It's like very anti hustle culture is like the new trend, which is kind of you know, everything so cyclical and so weird in the marketing space. But I feel like when it comes down to what you're willing to kind of put on the line, like you said, put the filter of your best friend through it. And then everything that you just talked about, the key takeaway that I hear is patience. And Travis, I'm not patient. And I'm like, oh, but it's also the thing that has kept me in this game. I, you and I both like we've been in the industry long enough to see these meteoric rises of all these creators, and also the plummet like we've seen the rise in the fall of so many businesses, so many creators. And I know that you have a lot of background and not just podcasting, YouTube marketing, website marketing, like all the different email marketing. And I'm curious in you taking all the knowledge that you've gained over the years, and applying it to your new content and your new business. What are some of those things that you're like, I'm so glad I learned this the first time. I'm so glad I know this now. Like, do you have any tips to someone that's listening, and they're just getting started? And they're like, I want want Travis as I like, I wouldn't want this type of platform. But how can I kind of leapfrog some of the big mistakes? That's what I'm asking really is like, what's your biggest mistake? Travis, just tell us?
Travis Albritton:So, I mean, so I think my biggest mistakes typically come from trying to take a shortcut, to be honest. So coming back to patients, it's, oh, I think I can go from here to there faster if I just do this. And then most of the time, it backfires. Because shorts, shortcuts don't usually work. It's nice to imagine that there's a silver bullet out there. And that's the reason that you're not successful. But it's it's likely not the case, right. And going back to patients, there's something that I that I heard recently from a creator, that really resonated with me was that patience is not an emotion, it's an action. And so I think the idea of being patient can feel very agonizing. But if your actions reflect a person who is patient, or showing Patience, then you you are patient, whether you like it or not, right, I don't like using patients, it's not something I enjoy, it's not a fun experience. But if if you look at what you actually do, and how you actually conduct yourself, and that shows patience, then that is really where you focus. That's where the discipline comes in. It's like I'm just gonna be disciplined to do the right things the right way. And it doesn't matter how long it takes. That's the key. If as soon as you put timetables associated with goals, then there's a lot of pressure to make things happen. But if it's this is the goal, this is where I'm going. And I'm totally content for to take as long as it takes, because I'm loving the process. Like you can't lose in that scenario, like there's no way that you can lose there. Because you can pivot, you can shift, you can adjust your goals, you can say, You know what, that's not actually a goal I want anymore, I'm gonna replace it with this one. And it's like, the best experience in the world. Like, you just get to create things and help people. That's amazing. But as soon as you say, Okay, we need to be a six figure business by year two, because I quit my job and like, this is all I got. So I don't want to sell the house, like we got to make this happen. Like, that's a lot of pressure to put on yourself. And, you know, that's not a really great place to operate from or to make really good long term choices from. So if I think about my biggest mistakes, it always comes back to not being patient and wanting the shortcut, winning the quick fix, that's gonna get me just a little bit faster, to where I want to be. Only to realize there's a reason that shortcut doesn't work. It's because you really need to just be patient and just let it play out. Yeah, can you hear my kids just knocking on stuff in the background?
Krystal Proffitt:It's great. It's great. I love it. I feel like I feel like they're like creating the Albritton bands. Like they're just like, they're ready. They're ready to go. It's happening. It's like there's only company here.
Travis Albritton:There's only so much sound dampening you can do in a home office, you know, like I've got sound tiles. I've got like a closed door. Good mic technique. You can't stop a four year old and a one year old being on the podcast once they decide they want to be there.
Krystal Proffitt:No, they're here. They're here to party. They're here to party and it's fine. We welcome it and we're glad we're glad that they're here. They're trying to come in that's trying to come in and be part of this conversation. Yep, But I love what you said about patience and discipline. I think that was the perfect analogy of, it's not even really comparing the two. It's like really just aligning them in what you have to have in order to make this happen. But I want to go back to what you were saying about someone saying, Okay, I quit my job, I need a six figure business, that it's not only super hard, like, it's so much pressure on yourself, it's hard to be creative. It's so hard to be creative, and really just feel alive in your content. And this is something I think you do so well is you put a lot of emphasis and like, I can feel the passion, I can feel the passion, I was actually listening to your podcast right before this. And I'm gonna pull up this is the episode y'all need to go listen to Okay. It's called the first piece of content. Every business needs. I was listening to this I was like, was Trump's got to say this, I want to hear what he has to say. But I can feel it like as soon as you get into it like you are no nonsense, let's just get down to business and talk about the important things we need to cover. And I think that that just comes from experience, confidence, but also passion. Like you're so passionate about this. And I'm just curious, when you're looking at marketing for your clients, or the other people that you're working with? Is there something that you can do to kind of give them that patience? Like are you looking at like long term strategies with people are you looking at, here's what we can do to optimize what you already have? Like, how does that really work when you're working with someone else?
Travis Albritton:So it's always hard to well, especially when you start talking about podcasting and setting expectations. Talking about things you can't control, it's very hard to go viral as a podcast, right, is that incremental drip of growth is typically the is typically the norm. And so the first thing that I do, because I have the luxury of working with businesses, is I encourage them to find a key performance indicator or KPI that is not downloads. So what would make this podcast worthwhile to you, if it never got super big. And typically, that is some kind of business results. So whether it's, you're in a b2b space, so this is gonna be mainly an interview podcast, and you're gonna interview prospects, and here's the framing we're going to use where it's really valuable content, but it's going to give you a reason to be in sales mode and build those relationships. And so it's like, okay, well, this year, you spent XML producing your podcast, you gain this many clients, what's the lifetime value of those clients is that more than what you spend on the podcast, great, has any downloads an episode doesn't matter, you made money, right. And so, So tying the pie, if you're trying to play the podcast game to be popular, and to be really big, it's very hard. It's not like tick tock, where you can have 15 seconds of fame. And that's very ephemeral. So, you know, good luck trying to get him to come back. But it's very hard to create a viral podcast. So it's one first creating something that's worthwhile on its own. And then tying it to a result outside of the podcast itself, is really helpful. Because the thing that makes podcasting really unique and special is the depth of the connection you have with your audiences completely and paralleled in the internet space, you know, so like, tick tock, three seconds of attention, Facebook video, three seconds, as someone's scrolling past to see the video of their neighbor's kids, which is why they're actually there, they're not there to see your ad. YouTube, three minutes is really, really good. You can get someone to watch three minutes of your video before they go and find a cat video. The podcasts are listening to like 90% of a 45 minute conversation, like that's just crazy, like people won't give you that much attention anywhere else on the internet. And so if you can then leverage that into a connection with somebody, and then you have another way of serving them outside of the podcast itself, that can then be a vehicle to accelerate the other things you're doing. And so talking about setting expectations are how to make them happy with it. It's how do we connect this to something else that really matters to you? And how do we make the podcast something that's the favorite part of what you do? So this is something you look forward to being able to do you feel like it positive positively reflects you and your values and you're like excited to share it and be like look, I'm an apple podcast. Isn't that amazing? There's my name like there's something to be said for that. And and then again, just like tying it back to a really tangible result that's not well, we don't have 5000 downloads per episode yet so let's just call it quits
Krystal Proffitt:you just saying that makes me so sad? Because I've heard it so many times. I've seen it I've seen people just quit and I'm just like, I don't know if it's burnout. That is one option. I don't know if it's because they got frustrated that they aren't getting 10,000 downloads per episode and I don't know like we don't have we need an exit interview for creators. This is something we should we should do this Travis let's like keep us together. We need to be like why did you quit like what's happening? We need the exit interview like why you Quit your job. Because it just it makes me so sad. And I think that the majority of it is unrealistic expectations and the fact that they aren't living up to this standard of what people are putting out there, because this is another interesting thing is Travis knows a lot of behind the scenes of the podcasting space. And I mean, I just remember when we would use to talk about numbers, and you're like, those people really don't have those numbers, or that's not, that's not. We're not gonna call anybody out, but it's typically not as much. So if somebody's just getting their podcast up and running, can you tell us a little bit about? Like, what would you expect? Like if it was a brand new client, they launched this month? What would you tell them to expect?
Travis Albritton:So with a brand new clients, if they have an email list that factors in if they have social media presence, that's a factor. But we're typically aiming to get to 100 downloads an episode as quickly as possible, because then that puts you in like the top 25% of any podcasts. So right there, you can use that and say, like, listen, we have traction, people are continuing to come back to listen to it, we have something here. Let's capitalize it. Let's continue to grow it. And then you start to look at that incremental growth. But it really depends on the niche, too. Like, there's so many factors. If you're creating a true crime podcast, yeah, you can get 5000 downloads an episode easily. But it's hard to build a business off of a true crime podcast, unless you're like a recruiter for the local law enforcement office, right? Like there's, there's only so many ways you can monetize that outside of sponsorships. And so like, you know, when I have a client, it's like, hey, we do business PR for small businesses. Like that's a very niche within the PR agency industry, for marketing online. So when you get for your downloads an episode, that's like, amazing, yeah, because you're the only one that exists in the entire world. You're the only podcast that does this in the whole world, you know, 400 people coming to listen to you. Like, that's amazing. Next year, let's see if we can get it to 600 700 800. But we're gonna talking in terms of years, it's like, this time next year, where do we want to be? And how do we get there? And how much money do we want to spend to promote it? And how much time do you want to spend going on other podcasts to promote your show? And so all these things are factors. But for me, I've seen like, if you can get very quickly to 100, just like leveraging all the channels they already have, even if it's like, let's hold a contest with your company, and have everybody listened and leave a review and give somebody a $50 amazon gift card, like there's all kinds of things you can do to get to 100. And then from there, it's just sticking with it long enough to basically Outlast everyone else in your niche. Yeah, is the secret to winning the long game. Right. So while I was Buzzsprout, we launched buzz cast, which is a podcast about podcasting in the podcasting industry. I've been replaced by Jordan, who's far superior to me as a host. So it's much better for it. But when we started that podcast, it was like, we had no goal for it other than we're just going to make something for Buzzsprout customers. That's it. And then it became like one of the top five podcasts about podcasting in the world. Just because we did it for four years. And so if you do anything for four years, especially in a medium, like podcasting, or anything online, where four years is an eternity, like, yeah, you're gonna be much more established than anyone else. So it's really just about starting, and then sticking with it beyond when everyone else dropped out. And so if you can do that, then you can be the number one go to person for what you talk about. So that's where the patience comes in.
Krystal Proffitt:I was gonna say we just That was a beautiful, like, circle back around to discipline. And I feel like that's a theme. This is a theme. Yes, definitely. It. It's funny, because this is the lesson I always have to learn. I'm so impatient in everything, especially when it comes to my business. Because I am one of those people. It's not so much that I want to, like, grow and scale necessarily. It's more about this is hard. When you're doing something new, or especially people listening, they're just getting started. They're like, Oh, I don't know how, what is auto leveling? What are like, I don't understand what all these buttons are in Audacity, or Hindenburg or wherever you're editing and you're like you're frustrated. You want to just give everything over to an expert. And then you're like, oh, I don't know if I can afford that, because I'm just getting started. So it's like this weird, messy middle that you go through and to hear traffic. As I say, You need patience. You're just like you. I know you're screaming at us right now. But the truth is, if you can just stick with it. Over time, you go back and you look at all these incredible things that you've done like Travis I mean, I don't even know if I've told you this, but I have over 1000 episodes at this point from doing the potty report doing the profit podcast and y'all I didn't do anything extra special. I just kept showing just kept showing up and talking. And so it's like all that incremental growth that Travis was talking about builds and builds and builds over time. And it's just it's so incredible. I love podcasting, and I travel So as to, and I'm curious as you were looking at your business strategy, so not for your clients, but for what you're doing. Is there any one piece? Well, first of all, I have to ask you another question. Because, yes, a little controversial. Okay, we're gonna get into the controversial weeds here. How do you feel about shownotes? Do you do show notes on your website? Do you just do them on? Like, because people are always asking me this question. And I'm curious what your thoughts are.
Travis Albritton:So there's two different ways to do show notes. There is bullet point references for things you talked about in the podcast with a couple of sentences to summarize. So you're giving people if they're trying to decide which episode to listen to, and they're poking around, you want to give them enough to know, okay, this is what they're gonna talk about. And then here are the links for the things they talked about. There's that version of the show notes. Then if you want to do the SEO play, you write a blog post, you say, not just am I writing a blog post, like more shownotes. But what is the keyword traffic? I'm trying to tap into? How am I optimizing this page on my website for that keyword traffic to show up organically on the first page of Google? And then what is the blog post that I need to write around this question to the search term? To make it the best answer on the internet? When somebody has this question? Oh, by the way, there's an embed code where I have my podcast player. That's the other way to do show notes. So so it's not just about like more show notes, it has to be with that strategy being the primary driver. And then that also informs how you choose your topics. And so if you're using that strategy, and you want to do blog content, and you want that to start driving traction traffic for you, you start with the blog, actually. And then you reverse engineer what you should talk about on the podcast, where then you could write the blog that's going to get the traffic but you start with, what are people looking for online? That I can answer better than anyone else? And then how do I create written content to answer that question, and then I'm going to create a podcast out of that. And then if you're recording video, then I'm gonna put it on YouTube. But you start first with what is the stream of traffic I'm tapping into and how do I do that to the best of my abilities. That's where more shownotes actually makes sense. But if you're just doing an audio podcast, and uploading to Apple and Spotify, you don't need to write a blog.
Krystal Proffitt:Okay, y'all heard it from Travis. I knew this is what he was going to say. But I wanted to say I told y'all I told y'all this is the way because this is something that I've I have heard talking about the exit interview of burnout, pod podcasters. And content creators. People tell me all the time, they're like, I don't podcast anymore, because they can't do show notes. And I'm like, you can't publish something and say, This is what today's episode is about period Publish. And they're like, Well, no, I have to do the whole website, I have to do the, the it's got to be this. And it's got to be SEO. And I'm like, Who said like you don't have to just because 1000 Other podcasters are the big podcasters that you follow that have a team of 20 people behind them? Like, because they do all that it doesn't mean you have to. And so I just I love your perspective on this. And I think that it's super helpful. Especially because there's a lot of people that are either just getting started with all of content creation, or they're looking at adding another piece to whether it's YouTube or an email list or any of those. Do you foresee adding anything? Are we going to see Tik Tok soon from you, Travis? Like, is there anything fun coming up that you're going to be adding to honest marketing, we have to know
Travis Albritton:so so here's everything that I do for the podcast. And so a lot of it is just tapping into organic traffic. But then also talking about paid acquisition strategies as well. So organically, so I record a video with the audio. So that allows me to put it on YouTube. And podcast directories like Apple podcasts and Spotify. YouTube is becoming a much more popular platform for people to listen to podcasts on. You know, I think Edison Research came out and said, it's actually the number one podcast listening platform, which everyone in the industry is like, That can't be true in. They're like, well, that's what people said. So what are you gonna do? And so I think people have started to figure out like, Oh, like this is that we're actually just recording a talk show. But instead of Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, it's Travis and Krystal talking about marketing, right. And so if you can capture video, somehow, whether it's Zoom video, which we're using now, or other platforms, like Riverside, or you're recording in the same room, and you just set up your phone on a tripod and hit record, having video that you can use on YouTube gives you one more place for people to discover your content. And like, really, tangibly, the way this looks is you post a video, and nothing happens. You post another video and nothing happens. You do that 10 times. And then you have one video and you're like, how does that have 100 views and these other have four? Then you look and you're like, oh, YouTube showed that to 20,000 people didn't ask me for permission. That is did it. And so now that's 20,000 new people that were exposed to live content that would never have done had that experience in Apple podcasts or Spotify. That just does not happen. And so YouTube gives you discoverability where platforms like Apple podcasts and Spotify really struggle because YouTube is a search engine first and foremost, and so I think having that is a really easy way to repurpose your content is really valuable. Especially if you're doing zoom interviews, just hit record, record the video, upload it to YouTube. Now you have another place to distribute your content. I'm not a big fan of the audiogram thing. Because people go to YouTube to watch videos of people's faces not to see a picture with a squiggly line. That's just my two cents. And then figure out what platforms are doing and leaning into right now. It's short form vertical videos. Well, guess what, you just have 30 minutes or 40 minutes of content, I bet there's two or three little 22nd clips you can pull out of there, reformat, and then upload as a short. And the you know, I have a relatively new YouTube channel. And I'm driving it all organically, just to like test and experiment on things that I use for my clients. And so I think since September probably had, like 5000 views on the whole channel. Well, I had one short that did 1100 In the span of 48 hours. And it was not the one I expected. Really that one that's the one you thought was great. What about this one that I put a bunch of time and effort into four views, right? So rather than try and figure out what the algorithm once just give it everything and let it choose. But once you start to then repurpose content you already have, you're not trying to reinvent the wheel. And that's what creates, that's when content marketing becomes really valuable as you have a core piece of content, that you're able to pull bits and pieces out of, and repurpose in different places. So that's what I do organically is really a YouTube focus with the content with YouTube shorts. And then obviously distributing it to audio platforms. Now I still prefer that people subscribe on Apple podcasts and Spotify and overcast and those kinds of places. Because it's a lot stickier people subscribe to youtube channels all the time, and then never watch any more videos. But when you subscribe to our podcast, you typically listen to most of the episodes. And the retention is still way better. Because there's less distractions. There's not like a whole sidebar of other videos tempting you to go and watch something else. But YouTube is a really great platform for distributing and really as a marketing arm to get the word out there about what you're doing. And then I will, I will find unique sponsorship opportunities. There's the tried and true stuff like you can pay for a podcast promotion spot in a third party app, like podcast addict is typically the best one to start with, that tends to be cheaper, overcast, pod bean to let you do it, Pocket Casts, and in some of these other you start getting to like multiple $1,000 for an ad spot. But they're extremely effective. Like it's much more effective than running Facebook ads or Google ads, because you're advertising to people that are podcast listeners that are listening to podcasts. And so they're they're not trying to watch tiktoks. They're trying to listen to podcasts. And so it's like, oh, well, here's another one I might be interested in. So that's one really great way to do it. The other way that I've been trying and experimenting with and who knows if this would be a good long term strategy is finding untapped groups online of people that could be my ideal listener, and sponsoring those groups. So I recently just finished up a sponsorship campaign where I sponsored a Facebook group of 3000 people for a month. And it was for sponsored posts and for sponsored emails. And it was the first time this person had ever done that. And it was relatively inexpensive. Because it's like, Hey, this is money I didn't have before. You're just saying if I tell people to go and listen to your podcast, like you'll give me money, that's great. Like, let's make this happen. Yeah. And so also like looking for creative ways that are outside of the mainstream, to just say, How do I get my content in front of people that would enjoy listening to it, and do it in a way where it's very easy for them to take that next step. So all the posts had links to the episode, for instance. If you can get creative, you can find some really great opportunities to get exposure for relatively little. The problem with best practices is everyone knows them. Everybody does them, they become more expensive. So like when I first started doing overcast ads, you could buy a month for 60 bucks. And now depending on your category, it's like $1,800 for Oh my gosh. So if only it's like I was what? Following somebody on Instagram. And they were joking. Like the biggest mistake in my life was not being able to buy foreclosed properties in 2008 when I was in eighth grade. No, it's like the timing is everything. Oh my gosh, right? Yes, it's like holy it could have been a landlord in 2009 you have access to all this free cash flow to that I was in middle school. So you can't go back. But you can find those next opportunities and and try and capitalize on those.
Krystal Proffitt:Yeah, and I think that with you know what you're doing in the honest marketing and being so transparent, I think like I foresee and I hope and I pray that this trend just continues with people looking for ethical marketers people that are not trying to swindle them and people that are just listening to their spidey senses more about like all the like, we're gonna dupe these people. Well, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that. And I think that your show and what you're doing your platform is just going to continue to grow, because I'm super supportive of all of this. And I think that everybody that's listening is you're gonna have some new listeners after this, I'm just gonna go ahead and put that out there. Because there's people listening. They're like, Oh my gosh, I don't like this the gross like, icky stuff that people are doing. And Travis is someone that I've learned from for a long time. So all y'all please go check out his show. And if someone's listening and are interested in working with you, like, what would that look like? Do they need to contact you? Like, tell us all the things?
Travis Albritton:Sure, yeah. So So I work primarily with businesses that are multiple, six figures, seven, eight figures in annual revenue, and do just full service podcast production. And so if that's you, or you're connected to someone that feels like, hey, they would really benefit from that, then just go to honest podcast.com. I'm building a new website. So right now, it's an old website, but in the future, it'll be really epic and awesome. You'll just have to take my word for it. Be honest. Yeah, I patients is coming. You know, it's like, I could be super stressed out that it's not here yet. Or just just let it happen when it happens, you know, c'est la vie. But yeah, and I think the first step that I always go through with a potential client is, what are you hoping to get out of this? And if you can answer that, really, tangibly, and say, This is what I'm hoping to accomplish from this podcast, then that's where you start. And then if it makes sense for me to produce the podcast for you, then we start talking about that. If it doesn't, then I say, Here, here's the way I would do it, if I was you, and here's how you can save a bunch of money by going and doing it yourself or using these other tools. So that'd be the best place for people to go if they want to potentially work with me, or, or see if I can help them be honest. podcasts.com.
Krystal Proffitt:Okay, perfect. And we're gonna link to that in the show notes. And Travis, this is so fun. But we're not done yet. We're not done right? Because I have some rapid fire questions. And I'm not going to ask that you're up for them. You don't even have the option. You're just you have to answer these. But what's fun, is I'm going to go back and listen to our old one, because it's the same questions. I want to see if your answers have changed. They probably are on the show. So okay, so the first one is, what piece of advice would you give to a brand new podcaster or content creator,
Travis Albritton:have fun. Like, just enjoy the act of making content. Because if you can find joy in what you're doing, you'll keep doing it. If you become too gory and goal oriented or results oriented too quickly, then it steals the joy out of everything you're doing. So make sure you have fun, no matter what you're doing.
Krystal Proffitt:That's great. Okay, the next one is what is the dream podcast you would love to be on? And who is your dream podcast? Guest.
Travis Albritton:So I think dream podcast to be on. Yeah, that's a tough one. That's a tough one. So I would probably say right now, it would be the Tim Ferriss show. Because I'm just a sucker for all things just like life hacking. I talked about being patients, but I also love Four Hour Workweek, you know, so trying to figure that tension out balance. Yeah, that balance, right. I do have an alter ego. And so but that would be just phenomenal. To be able to pick his brain and ask him the questions, I would want to ask somebody who is always thinking about how to optimize every piece of their life, even their personal life. And so, and I think he's just a phenomenal interviewer. So I'd love to be on his show. And I would still love to have Neil deGrasse Tyson as my guest. I'm pretty pretty confident.
Krystal Proffitt:Last time that I was like, Yeah, I don't know if it was Tim Ferriss, but I know that that was the dream guest.
Travis Albritton:Yeah, so Neil deGrasse Tyson hasn't happened yet. Just gotta be patient one day, it'll happen. I mean, having a podcast about marketing, I'm not, my ads aren't great. So I'd have to pivot into something else. But though maybe
Krystal Proffitt:you have to create the podcast that you're like, okay. You're like SEO? You're like, Okay, which one? Is Neil going to be like? Yes, that's the podcast, just maybe you should call it like the like, searching for new. Like, wait, what is PR people are like, what is that? Are you involved? I don't know if I get you in some trouble. Maybe we already do that.
Travis Albritton:Maybe we'll see. We'll see.
Krystal Proffitt:Okay, and then my last question is, do you consider yourself a perfectionist?
Travis Albritton:No, I used to. But the problem with being a perfectionist is that you cry, like my child in the background. Because Because the problem is you can never live up to your own expectations if you're always trying to be perfect. And so going back to like having fun. Unless you can just say, this is good enough. And I'm gonna like go on with the rest of my life. Like my life does not have to be consumed with this piece of content of this podcast episode. There's a lot of freedom that comes from that. And just knowing like, I've created the thing that's good enough within the parameters that I've given it, specifically time parameters, and say, I'm not gonna say spend five hours recording an episode, I'm going to put some time into the outline, and I'm gonna give it a shot. And if it's terrible, I'll do it again. But if it's like, no, this is going to help somebody, I don't have to worry about it being perfect. And so once you let go of this myth that you can create the perfect thing, because you can't, then that allows you to actually enjoy creating the best thing you can right now, knowing it's only gonna get better, the more you do it.
Krystal Proffitt:I feel like you gave us so many gifts in this whole episode like I am. Again, I'm so grateful I started this with telling you, I'm so grateful. But I truly am so grateful for the mentorship that you've offered to me and all the amazing things that you've shared with the audience today, because this is people are gonna go back and listen to those like, like, what did Travis say about this? Like, I want to go back and see and then they're gonna go listen to your show, right? Please go listen to honest marketing. And go check out all the cool things that Travis is doing. But thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Travis Albritton:This was great. Thanks for having me. It was a blast.
Krystal Proffitt:Like I said in the very beginning, I love a reunion, it was so good to catch up with Travis. I love what he is doing. I think that there's been a lot bigger push in the last probably 24 months for people to take a look at marketing in general, and have an approach that's authentic, it's honest. And it's something that people can feel good about. Because at the end of the day, you want to feel good about the interaction you're having with your audience with your potential customers. And I love Travis's example. You know, the story he told about doing something and somebody's like, calling him out on it. Like that didn't feel good to me. And so if you're brand new to content creation, or your brand new online business owner, that I really encourage you to listen to the feedback from your audience. And maybe you're doing something that's like an industry best practice. But if in your gut, you're like, Ah, I just don't know that I feel good about that. Then take a step back and like be pretty self aware, to know when you're doing something out of integrity, or you're in integrity, and then you'll be able to make that final executive decision of whether you want to follow a path that has been taught to you or something that even one of your industry peers has said, this is the way to do it. If it's against your morals and values, then don't do it. Like take a step back, practice on his marketing practice the things that Travis and I have talked about, and just really be true to who you are. And the way that you want to have the interaction with your audience. Just be fully within line with who you want to be like the person that you want to be out in the world and what you're putting forward. So please go listen to Travis's podcast, go to the show notes, KrystalProffitt.com/episode382 For everything that we talked about here today, and to go check out Travis this podcast because it's really good. It's really, really good. And I Sorry, I shouldn't laugh about that. Travis like, I'm surprised I knew that whatever you're doing next was going to be incredible. I kind of giggle a little bit because I love your stories. And I love the way that you put examples out into the world. And I hope that you listening to this podcast, you will love Travis's podcast just as much. But again, go to the show notes KrystalProffitt.com/episode382 And go check out Travis's show. But that's all I have for you today. So if this is your first time tuning in, make sure you hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening to this podcast. And as always remember, keep it up. We all have to start somewhere