The Proffitt Podcast
Are you thinking about starting a podcast? Launching a YouTube channel? Repurposing your old blog content into something fresh? Hi, I'm Krystal - host of "The Proffitt Podcast." And I'm happy to say you've come to the right place!
Business owners and content creators dream of building a platform where they can connect deeply with their audience, and marketing feels easy. But I also know what it's like to feel confused and overwhelmed.
Join us weekly as we strip down those processes and remove all the overwhelm with new tips, simple strategies, and great conversations with creators like you. Tune in to hear how I help creators start, launch, and market their content confidently. The motto here is, "We all have to start somewhere."
The Proffitt Podcast
Utilizing AI for Effective Course Creation and Marketing
Ready to supercharge your copywriting skills and maximize your content's impact? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Monica Badu, a seasoned conversion copywriter and marketing guru with over 25,000 hours of experience. Monica takes us through her remarkable journey, from creating SEO content to mastering sales copywriting. Learn how understanding your audience's pain points and focusing on their benefits can drastically improve your engagement and conversions. Monica's hands-on tips and personal anecdotes will inspire you to view writing as a skill that can be honed for impressive results.
Struggling with crafting compelling sales copy or promoting your courses? Monica shares invaluable insights on how to tackle these common challenges. We explore the evolving landscape of course creation using AI, discussing how tools like ChatGPT can help you create authentic, relatable narratives. Discover how to differentiate your offerings in a crowded market and the importance of storytelling in connecting with your audience. Monica's practical advice is designed to help you not just survive but thrive in the competitive world of digital content and course creation.
Data-driven decisions are crucial for successful marketing strategies, and this episode delves into how you can leverage data analysis to refine your efforts. From setting benchmarks based on top-performing content to understanding product-market fit and clear communication, we've got you covered. Monica also emphasizes the power of collecting testimonials and maintaining consistent, meaningful communication with your audience.
Whether you're looking to bounce back from an unsuccessful launch or refine your marketing funnel, this episode provides the actionable insights you need to align your offerings with your target audience effectively. Tune in and transform your copywriting and marketing strategies today!
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OWNR OPS PodcastStarting a business by offering a service to your local community is one of the...
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Copywriting and email. What do you feel when I say those words Like, do you immediately go, ooh, those are things that I need to work on in my creator business or that's something I've been ignoring a little bit on my podcast, maybe your show notes or your episodes, and it's just not something that you really feel that is a strong point for you. If you're nodding along, you're like, uh, yeah, that's me. Well, that was me for a long time too, okay. So let me throw that out there as, like, if this is something that maybe isn't one of your strengths, that is okay, because today's guest is going to help kind of debunk some of the myths that are around in the copywriting and email marketing space, and we're just going to talk about how you can get better at conversion copywriting. So Monica Badu is a conversion copywriter and copy coach who specializes in helping course creators and companies increase revenue through customer-centric copywriting. With more than 25,000, yes, 25,000 hours of hands-on marketing experience over 14 years, clients hire Monica to optimize their email marketing efforts. So in this conversation today, you're going to hear so much of Monica's own experience and we're going to dive into kind of a few different areas that you can focus on as a creator whenever it comes to your copywriting and marketing. So let's get right to it.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Profit Podcast, where we teach you how to start, launch and market your content with confidence. I'm your host, crystal Profit, and I'm teach you how to start, launch and market your content with confidence. I'm your host, crystal Profit, and I'm so excited that you're here. Thanks for hanging out with me today, because if you've been trying to figure out the world of content creation, this is the show that will help be your time-saving shortcut. So let's get right to it, shall we it, shall we? All right, profit Podcast listeners, I'm so excited to have our special guest today.
Speaker 1:So welcome to the show, monica. It's great to be here. This is going to be so much fun. You know we were chatting before we started recording, and I love to talk about copywriting. I love to talk about anything that has to do with content in particular, but writing is one of those skills that I think we all have. But that's what it's a skill Like. It is a muscle that you have to use and you have to try new things and do different things, you know, to really find that muscle that's going to work for you. So tell me a little bit about your journey with writing in general, or just creating content Like where did you get started?
Speaker 2:I love your point about. Everyone has this skill of writing. That's so I'm going to use that on my Instagram. I'm going to use that on my Instagram because what I'm going to like share into this podcast episode is exactly that you can write good copy even if you think you can't write.
Speaker 2:So I started this many, many years ago. I was in my early 20s and I just got my first job. I was writing SEO content and then I wanted to test what I learned there on starting my own blog and then another website and then another website and it worked. So I gradually built my writing skills up to the point where I kind of got in love with marketing as a whole. And five years ago I was looking for an opportunity to just specialize, because over the years I've done everything every little bit of tactic I tried, every little bit of channel you can think of. So I just looked for an opportunity to specialize and I started to specialize in building sales funnels, for course, creators and short. After I realized I don't really like all of that, but I'm really really good at writing sales copy like really good and it just kind of felt like me. So I learned, I improved, I learned some more and I improved some more. And here I am today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so has that always been sales copy for like yourself, or has this been for clients Like? This is a service that you provided.
Speaker 2:So both, although it's so much easier when I do it for clients I just had like a workshop just before this recording session and the client was it's so hard to write marketing copy for my business and I'm like I can attest. I know I'm having a hard time doing it for my own courses and my own digital products, but it's so easy when you do it for somebody else, and I've worked with dozens, of course, creators across different industries from all over the world and it's so amazing to see what you can do with an audience when you have a really empowering message, and being part of the impact that Course Creator is making in the world is very rewarding and motivating to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I couldn't agree more, you know, when it it comes to the sales copy aspect is I think it is easier for someone else to get an eye on your business or what you're doing and be able to say, oh, this is your opportunity or this is the key thing, because so many of us, especially people in my audience that are listening today, they're heads down, they are creating content, they're just in the weeds of their business doing all the things, and so it's really hard for them to brag on themselves or to say all these incredible things that they've been doing. It feels hard because it does feel salesy or sometimes it feels pushy. So if someone's listening right now and maybe they're developing the next thing that they're gonna sell, or maybe they're even writing copy to launch their podcast or launch their content, what advice would you give to them to just get started Like, is there like a formula or a first step that they should take before they just dive into writing in a Google Doc?
Speaker 2:So they should really really know their audience and what are their pain points and what they're trying to solve with their course, because that shifts the focus from like making it about yourself, sorry, to making it about your audience and how you can actually help them. I mean, that's the number one thing and it makes things a lot easier. Second, it's not going to be easy to do that on your own just because you are in your head so much. So what I always tell people is try to have that conversation with a friend, with a coach or with a fellow course creator, and now you can use AI to kind of act, make it act like a coach, right, so you can actually prompt it and tell it. So please help me figure this out and act like a coach. You can use AI to prompt it so it can act like your business or copy coach, if you want, and you can actually use the voice command on ChatGPT. It's really good.
Speaker 2:I've been using it as my personal assistant. Yes, hint, so you can have that process and it's so much easier when you remove yourself from you know the everyday tasks and the everyday. You know what you're telling yourself that you have to do and how you have to do it and that way you're gonna find some really good nuggets in there. I do this for my coaching clients and it's amazing to see, to see them look at their course through a complete, like a completely new perspective, because they know it's good but they didn't know how good it actually is.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, and is that like just so satisfying for you like to work with someone through that, for them to see like, oh, this isn't total garbage, or this isn't awful, like this is actually really good, like I had some good stuff in there? You just kind of have to dig through to find it and really pull that out of people. I think I can imagine that would be so fulfilling and so it's just a lot of people.
Speaker 2:You know they have a very hard time kind of showing themselves and actually believing that what they're offering into the world is that valuable. And for me as a copywriting, as a copywriter and marketing professional, my first question is a very difficult question because I'm going to ask them how is your course different to the other 10 courses that offer or promise the same thing? What is unique about you? How do you stand out from the crowd? And it's a very hard question. It's one of those questions that a lot of people they're too afraid to ask or they haven't asked themselves in a long time, and the industry has changed a lot. I mean, if five years ago you were probably the only one in your industry, in your niche, now it's a completely different game and you have to level up how you show up and what you offer and find new ways to demonstrate that your courses have the value and the promise of results that can convince someone to choose you instead of the other one.
Speaker 2:So it's I believe that in the next five to ten years we're gonna see some scary trends in the industry.
Speaker 2:We're gonna see a lot of like overnight overnighters, people who have a course business, that kind of just like, appeared overnight, similar to how we had dropshipping a few years ago, and that's because with AI, now we can create a course in like. You can have a whole script with even imagery if you want, like one day, yeah. And then, if you have the money, you put ads in it and voila, you have a course business. And then you're going to have people who have been in business for a long time and they're not going to be able to compete with these newcomers because they either struggle with their marketing, they're afraid to show up and to actually communicate that they do have a course, and I've seen this with a lot of people. They have massive YouTube followings and then the revenue they get from selling their courses is almost non-existent because they're not using that audience to tell them hey, I have a course, would you like to buy it? It's actually good here, check it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh man, even just thinking about that, like the next five to 10 years, because I think that I'm kind of you know, I've been in the podcasting space for a long time and I'm kind of one of the you know, the old ones, the dinosaurs that have been around at this point, because I mean, and I've only been doing it since 2018.
Speaker 1:There's people that have been doing it like way longer than me, but I still think of myself as, like you know, someone that is more in the seasoned, like creator camp. And to think about people that I know, because I know they're doing this as well for courses and for podcast and content in general, newsletters, everything. They're throwing it into AI and they're just like do this thing, here it is, here's the product, and they're throwing it up on whatever platform that they want it to appear. But how can we, as the people listening to this, stand out from all of those? We need to deeply understand who we're serving and what sets us apart. But is there another piece of it Like I'd love to hear your thoughts on storytelling. We always talk about storytelling so much here on the podcast and I would just love kind of your perspective on where storytelling fits into the formula, where storytelling fits into the formula.
Speaker 2:At every step. So I can actually give you a really good example. So a few months ago, I started working with a personal brand and he's basically teaching people how to get where he is right now. But his emails and his copy wasn't addressing where his audience is at the moment, which is where he used to be before he discovered the roadmap, the tactics that actually work to get him clients, to get him making more money. So he was talking like storytelling was based in the present day for him, which meant there was a disconnect between where he is and where his audience was.
Speaker 2:So when he was trying to sell his course, you know, it didn't really click because it was like well, this sounds awesome, but I think it's easy for you to tell me this now because you don't have the same problems I have and it's very hard for me to invest the money you're asking me to invest in this, because I don't have that kind of money now.
Speaker 2:So we took his emails and his self-speech copy to deliver the stories that he experienced when he started and that way he could connect and relate to his audience. So, instead of talking about his really cool life now, we talked more about the struggles he had when he started and in doing that, we were actually describing the problems his audience are facing now and we brought in new insights and new tactics and new ways to solve the current problems they have, and that built the credibility and the curiosity of okay, let's go check his course, because if his emails are this good, then probably his course is going to be even better, because who knows what better awesome stuff. I'm gonna get there and this is something that I do a lot with emails if you find the stories, you have the stories that the test that you've gone through the hard, the hard stuff, the hard parts of where your audience is right now, and you are able to overcome them, then you use those bad parts to connect and to describe where your audience is. Start right now.
Speaker 1:It's very helpful your audience is to work right now. It's very helpful. Yeah, and this is like I mean just talking about the pieces, like it's the grounding connection piece is it is everything, it is everything. And I think that so many of us are guilty of. You know, we're talking from what we experience, especially if your avatar, like you know, your ICA or the person that you're talking to, is some it's like a version of you from five years ago, then, yeah, it's easy to say, oh well, I should have done this, or what if I did that, and it's like no, no, no, go back to step one. You're at step 27. Like, let's, let's take them back. So I love this perspective of you know, hey, we need to go back to the beginning.
Speaker 1:And you just actually made me think about because I also use ChatGPT, I use the voice version, I have it on my phone, and this is really hard for me. I've realized over time when I've done all these different copywriting exercises, it's hard for me to sit down with the Google Doc like blinking at me and it's like, oh, write your story or fill out this template, do this workbook. But I just thought and I hope everybody hears this like, use the voice one so you can just talk to the chat. Gpt, you're talking to this bot and you're saying this is my story, like ask me the questions that I need to answer to you know, craft a personal message or to really draw out some of those bits and pieces. But that's so fascinating. I don't know if you have anything else to add on that, Something that helps me when I try to understand the course creator is.
Speaker 2:I look for podcast episodes or articles or videos where he or she talks about, you know, the inception story, because then you have the same interaction but they're out of it because somebody else is taking the lead.
Speaker 2:So I use that and I feed it into ChatGPT and I ask it to remove specific elements or to analyze it for the tone of voice for a lot of different things.
Speaker 2:So, even if you know maybe you're against using AI a lot of people are, or you find it complicated, you can actually use ChatGPT as an assistant to help you with basic marketing stuff so that you can actually navigate this insane change, like it's a trend that is overtaking everything, and I still resisted to the idea of having it write my sales copy just because I find it's very time-consuming to get something that is worthwhile. It's not there yet, but you can still use it for more simpler tasks and I suggest you do it and train your team to use AI as much as possible, because other people are using AI and they have no shame in it. They have no resistance and it's not necessarily that they're getting better quality products, but they're getting their product to the market faster? Yes, and that's a risk that lots, of course, creators should be considering right now, because, even if it's online marketing and it's not retail, if you're first to market, you have a unique standing in the perception of the consumer market.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that it's so true. I've been hearing this as a trend recently. It's just like it doesn't matter if you have the best product out there. It's are you out there? Like? That's really what it comes down to, and I think it goes the same with your content or a product. Like, whatever it is that you're launching is you just have to get it out there and then you can learn, and then you can tweak it and then you can change things.
Speaker 1:So I would actually love to hear your perspective on this, because I know that there's a lot of people in our audience who they already have existing websites, they have existing sales pages and newsletters that they're writing, but it's not great, and they know that. And they're like well, I'm already writing these things, I'm creating these things and I want to make them better, but how do I improve something that is already in existence today? Like do you have any advice for someone that's like I want to just have better content, but like, what? Like? Should they start with their sales page? Should they start with their email? Should they start with their social posts? Should they start with their email? Should they start with their social posts? Like where's like the biggest impactful piece?
Speaker 2:First of all, how bad is it and does it actually need to be improved? Because I've just gone through this, like over the last few days, and I get these questions so often. So I have people who change their whole sales emails on a whim and then they ask me for feedback and I'm like you've run them before. What were the results? What's happening on your sales page? Are you getting conversions? Where are people clicking? Do you know that? No, and then I'm. Why are you changing everything?
Speaker 2:Take the time to collect the data, know what's working and what's not working. So a good rule of thumb for instance, with a newsletter what's the biggest open rate you've ever had and click through rate and turn that into a benchmark for your brand. Then look at the next 10 newsletters. What happened there? How are they different to that top like your number one best open click-through rate? Then try to see what can you learn from that big performer. Maybe it's the button size, maybe it's the colors, maybe it's the content. Maybe the content was actually geared towards your audience. And then the other newsletters. They just talk about you. Maybe the best performer had a lot to do with something that happened was contextual and seasonal. That should give you an idea of creating more content that is seasonal or tied to something contextual, right? So the Olympics are happening in July in Paris. If you could talk about that, then obviously you could make it contextual and if your audience cares about that, then you're probably going to have a higher open rate because of that about that. Then you're probably going to have a higher open rate because of that.
Speaker 2:Now to go back to your question where should they focus first? Which part should they improve? So it has to do with top of funnel, middle of funnel and then bottom of funnel. So top of funnel has to do with getting you know, getting the traffic right. So let's say you're getting a lot of traffic from YouTube. What happens next is they go to your website that's middle of funnel and on the website they can subscribe to an email. They can even attempt to purchase something. Bottom of funnel is when they become customers. So you have these three layers.
Speaker 2:Where are you seeing the worst numbers? Are you getting low traffic? Then actually focus on improving your traffic. So if it's YouTube low YouTube visibility or engagement focus on that. If you're getting a constant volume of traffic but they're stopping on your website and they're not subscribing to your lead magnets, then you focus on that. If you're seeing that those people actually land on your sales pages but they're not buying, then you focus on optimizing your sales pages. So marketing isn't something that just randomly happens. You have to know your data, your numbers and based on that you decide which part you're gonna optimize first. Otherwise it's very difficult and it's frustrating and it's annoying and it's overwhelming, because if you focus on randomly working on a part that doesn't have an immediate return on investment, then obviously you're going to just be oh, I hate marketing. Marketing sucks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, and you just hit on so many critical points that I think people are maybe measuring a part of that, but not the whole picture, and I think that that's something that you know. Even what you said a second ago about the newsletter like what is the best newsletter that you've ever had? The best open rate, the best click rate, like you know the least amount of unsubscribes, like whatever that is. But looking at that from a perspective of like this is my benchmark, because so many people get really competitive isn't even the right word. It's the comparison of you know people are saying well, so and so said they got this and this person said they had this. You know percentage conversions and this, and you can feel very overwhelmed.
Speaker 1:I've been this very many times in my business where I hear these numbers of someone and I don't have the whole picture. I just have that one piece of like oh, I made $50 million on this one lunch, but then you don't know behind the scenes they spent $49 million on ads or whatever it was. So I think that that part where you can compare your own journey against your own benchmarks can really be helpful in just analyzing like this is the best that's happened. How can you replicate that or how can you make that happen again? It's like the magic in a bottle, like how can you capture it, and just looking at it from a holistic perspective of all of your metrics can absolutely help. Is that something that you do like for, let's say, your own business? Do you do that like on a monthly basis, do you do that on a quarterly basis, or do you do it like before you're going to launch the next thing again?
Speaker 2:So it's weekly for core pieces of my funnel and then monthly for things that I don't really care about. So for my core funnel I'm interested in a specific type of email, how it's going. I'm interested in specific website pages and how those are performing and check out for that specific page versus monthly, which is overall website traffic and overall number of opt-ins, referral traffic, because I do go on podcasts a lot and I want to see where the traffic is coming from. So that's the level. I do it for me. For clients the level is a lot more granular because based on that you can actually find, you know, the information that allows you to get, I know, 5% increase for the next promotion, plus per campaign, percent increase for the next promotion, plus per campaign. So I write monthly promotions for clients, which means that every month we look at those emails and we keep track of what has happened open rates, click-through rates, unsubscribed spam, complaints of, if any, replies. Then how many people went to the sales page? How many people went to the sales page? How many people went to the checkout page? How many people got the order bombed, the upsell, how much revenue was generated, what was the average order value? And over time, if you promote the same product several times over two years, then you have enough information to compare against right, so you can see a trend.
Speaker 2:We promoted this product in January and then again in June and then again in December.
Speaker 2:The next year, you test February, you test July and you test maybe November. Out of these six different promotions, which one had the best open rates and best click through rates and best average order value, and all of that so best KPIs across different points in time. And what I do, I tackle different angles. So I'm going to promote a product in January but it's going to have a different angle like justification for why they should be considering that course in January versus July or December. And when you have these amount of data points, it's a lot easier to make assumptions that could be successful for when you could just like automate or evergreen a promotion for that specific product. So you know that every subscriber who is new is gonna see a specific promotion for that specific product in, I know, three to six months. Whatever you can actually automate and trigger the promo to give it the best chances. Honestly, but only after you've had enough time collecting the data and optimizing, because you're going to optimize every step of the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know that there's someone thinking about all that and they're saying, wow, like that sounds incredible, I can't wait to get there. But I just did my first launch and everything was terrible and I didn't make any sales, or I made one sale, and now I'm like I want to set everything on fire and start again, or I want to like I wouldn't. I don't know what to do Like do you have any advice for someone that's they find themselves there? They're like I have a decent following, Like it's not zero, it's not massive, but I just I don't know what went wrong, Cause it sounds like you've done a ton of launches and you have a lot of experience, and like analyzing the data, looking at the analytics from a perspective of like oh no, this is the thing we should tackle first. If someone's listening to this right now, what advice would you give to them?
Speaker 2:So in marketing, nothing is lost. So if you've had the launch and it didn't work as well as you hoped it would, that's not failure, that's a lesson. And you've collected data, really important data. Now, to answer your question, probably going to need a few hours, but I'm just going to try to summarize it to a few things. So it's very important to have product market fit, and I can't stress this enough. To have product market fit, and I can't stress this enough. Like you could have the previous sales pages and you could have the most amazing copy, if your product doesn't match your market, your audience, it's not going to sell. So you need to go back to point number one in building your business why are you creating your courses, what is the specific need they are solving and what is the specific audience? It helps and, no, it's not going to help women between 20 to 60 who live in the US. No, you have to be more granular, because the more granular you are, the more specific your copy is going to be. Which leads me to number two. If your results weren't that great, there's a big chance that you didn't really communicate very specifically what the course is about and who's going to help. Again, if you're not talking about the specific problem you created your course for and who's the best audience, who's going to get the best possible results, you're not going to see a lot of success with it.
Speaker 2:Three collect testimonials, like if it's your first launch and you don't have any students. Open a beta version. Have five friends go through the course, give you some testimonials. Have five people, I know, do a giveaway. If you have the audience social media following, give it for free in, I know, giveaway whatever, whatever. And then have the testimonials. Have the feedback, welcome it.
Speaker 2:For we could talk a lot about deliverability and I'm gonna stop after this because, again, I could talk about this for hours. It's a pet peeve of mine. So deliverability is basically you could have a list that's 100k people, but if only 10,000 people actually open and engage with your emails, your deliverability is going to suck, which means that your emails are going to reach a very small audience and even they might have a hard time finding your emails and there are so many tactics to talk about there. But look at your email lists and consider emailing frequently, so not just when you have a launch, not just once a month, because people are going to forget about you. They're going to unsubscribe when you start sending lots of emails out of the blue, because they're going to be like who the hell is this person? Yeah, what do they want? To sell me something? What the hell is this?
Speaker 1:I'm going to stop there. I'm going to stop there. They're baby stepping into the pool that is running an online business and they're like, oh, the water is not too warm yet, maybe I need to get further in to see. And then they feel like they've gone off the deep end when they start getting into all the data and analytics and all these other pieces. But I hope that today's conversation really brings into light that, yes, there are multifaceted, multiple pieces of running your online business.
Speaker 1:But the truth is, if we zoom out all the way, it comes down to what Monica was saying. It's like understanding your audience and making sure that you have a product that fits with their needs and what they're already looking for. So I want to touch on this piece and I think it'd be a perfect place to expand or share any specific stories that you have. But I think about someone that launches something and then they realize, oh, this isn't the right thing or I'm launching to the wrong audience. I thought I was talking to entrepreneurs but turns out I'm talking to small business owners. There's a clear distinction in what people call themselves and if they find themselves having done a launch or they're looking to do their first launch and they want to avoid some of those mistakes. What piece of advice would you have to someone that is just getting started and they want to make sure that they're walking in with the right mindset around sales and copy?
Speaker 2:So, if you have the audience, survey your audience, ask them who they are. What do they need help with? What have they tried before to solve that specific problem? What do they want from you? Take it with a grain of salt. Sometimes it's not that people lie, but sometimes you know people just say what they think you want to hear. So you're going to sometimes need to create two or three of those surveys and then go through their answers with the mind of a detective, because I've done this for a client and it was mind-blowing.
Speaker 2:So they were teaching grammar and vocabulary to English non-natives. That was their assumptions and they had a pretty big audience on their website, lots of organic traffic, and then they started to create products and the products weren't selling. They were getting some results but they were not. You know, when you have like a million people on your website and then a very small percentage of them are buying is like what's happening. So we did surveys a couple of times and then the information was there in the results. Turns out their audience was 60 plus English natives, professionals who needed to be really good when it came to communicating in writing, because that's what their job required. A smaller audience was made up of non-English professionals who were making a living writing in English. So what we did? We created a course that taught them how to proofread and we created a course that took them how to proofread, and we created a course that took them on an advanced path that that audience could use their current natural skill, like being good at English, to make a second income, and that one started to sell so much better and the response was so good.
Speaker 2:So you start with what you have and, as an entrepreneur, you know you have to use the resources you have. If you have the audience, use the resource. You have to figure out what you should be creating as for the sales copy should be creating as for the sales copy. So what I do and I learned to do this early on because I realized that if I'm gonna send monthly promotion and in some cases, bi-monthly, bi-weekly promotion so two promotions per month to the same list you need to be very, first, creative and, second, very valuable with what you're selling. So what I do is I make all the emails about the problem, the problems the audience is having, because I'm saying, like, your audience has more than one problem, they have 99 plus problems and they're not going to be aware of us, of all of those problems at the same time. So what I do is, I think, of the context so it's July what's contextually relevant to this specific audience who is struggling with this specific problem? And then how can I connect the dots to my course? And then each email is basically giving them new information about the problem they have, introduces them to problems they didn't know they had because of the unsolved problem from the beginning, and I gradually move them to a sales sequence. So what I do is 11 emails over 10 days and that freaks a lot of people out. But hear me out, hear me out. So I've been doing this for I think it's four years now. I've been doing it for I think it's four years now. I've been doing it for dozens.
Speaker 2:Of course, marketing works so amazingly well that people love receiving the sales emails. We've had the situation where people asked to be removed from the sales sequence because they were like I don't want to be sold to, only to be asked to be put back into the sales sequence because of how valuable the emails were. And what I do in those emails and this is a really cool tactic to improve your deliverability is. I ask people to reply to the email so I create a connection, a conversation between me on this side of the screen and the person on the other side of the screen, and I give them an opportunity to share what they're struggling with. I give them an opportunity to be heard and seen, and this is something that not many people do because they're afraid of. You know the replies, the hate emails, the amount of work that comes with that, but what you're doing is you're building a relationship and you're building a business for the long term, and you're in this because you have a mission or a desire to help your audience. And if you have these three things, then you shouldn't be avoiding the interaction with your audience.
Speaker 2:Plus, if we're talking sales, you need multiple touch points with a lead before they buy something.
Speaker 2:The more touch points you have, the bigger becomes the trust over time, which means that down the line, if you have proved yourself to be someone who actually cares about the well-being of your audience, not just about the money, because a sales email doesn't have to look salesy to convert or to be aggressive Over time you're going to see better and better results, and what I've seen over the many years I've been doing this is that if you go with this specific angle that tackles a specific problem, which is coordinated with something that's happening contextually for your audience, when you're going to remove that and step into like a Black Friday promotion, because of all the touch points you've had, when you proved yourself as someone who knows what they're going through, understands them, is there to provide an empathetic shoulder for them to kind of not just cry on but to be actually to be supported into embracing the idea of change and progress and moving forward.
Speaker 2:When Black Friday comes and their excuses just like go down, they're going to buy. To an extent, that's going to take you by surprise and it's very interesting to see that. It's very, it's very cool to see that because you know you've been able to do it in a way that feels good to you and just like you send that weekly newsletter, that weekly newsletter, you can send those emails that deliver like a really good perspective, new insights, and coach your audience. Because that's what it's all about. If you're in this because you want to help your audience, you can coach them to get to the point where they would be willing to accept the fact that they need to do something to achieve the outcome thereafter. And your sales emails. That's what they do. They coach, they don't sell.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, like I feel like that was a masterclass. Like sell oh my gosh. Like I feel like that was a masterclass. Like that, oh my gosh. Like yeah, because you are, you're coaching them, you're helping them on their journey, but you're also like you're making those connection points that really drive home Like I'm either for you or I'm not, and I think that that makes people feel uncomfortable, but at the end of the day, like that's what will help you drive your business so much further. Faster is when you can make that distinction. Again, going back to what you said earlier of this is what sets me apart. Here's how we can help you accomplish your dreams or your goals and really get to that next place. But you're coaching them along the way to where, at the end, they're like throwing their credit card at you and they're just like take my money. Like, yes, like everything that Monica just said, take my money, think about it.
Speaker 2:I mean, how often do you go into your inbox and you get an email that feels like, oh my God, this person knows what I'm thinking. Like that's the exact objection or the exact excuse I'm making for not doing that, or that's exactly the reason I believe I'm not good enough to achieve this outcome. And then the email it's not just that it's reflecting back your inner beliefs, but it's helping you move forward, Like beyond that. It kind of shifts perspective, shifts a belief, and I love doing that. I think it's so impactful. And it goes back into this whole idea that I believe in.
Speaker 2:As brands who have an audience and visibility, you have a responsibility to create positive change in the world. So one person buys your course. If they go into it having been motivated to embrace the change and they achieve the outcome, their lives changes and then the lives around the people lives of the people around them has a minor impact, if you will, Because, for instance, if you help someone pass an IELTS exam and they are able to get the visa to immigrate and work abroad, then their entire family is going to benefit from that change. How awesome is that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I love that. We always call that like the ripple effect of content creation, right? It's like you help one person and that person helps more people, and so on. So I think that's beautiful and it's such a good place for us to kind of lay in this conversation today and you know Monica and I were talking about before we started recording. We're like we both can talk about all of this forever, forever, like just keep going on and on and on, and we'll have to have you back on the show today or, you know, like in the future, because I think it's just a conversation worth having just over and over again. We cannot stress enough how important it is to have great copy and how to make those connection pieces that means so much to your audience. But I want to move into our next segment because I have a few rapid fire questions that I would love to ask you. So are you up for it? Let's go? Okay, all right, the first one is what piece of advice would you give to a brand new podcaster or content creator?
Speaker 2:Build a network. So, if it's visibility, you want figure out what your audience is interested in learning and who would they be interested in learning that from, and then go find those people and I can tell you what I'm doing for my own podcast. So season two is going to be all about Black Friday and I'm doing solo interviews, solo episodes and interviews with people who are going to come and share from their personal experience as professionals who have worked with course creators for the Black Friday campaigns. So that way you have a very unique standing in the market of content that's, honestly, very crowded.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I love that. That's so fantastic, and I love networking and partnerships. I think collaborations are just key to business growth as well. And then, okay, my second question is what's the dream podcast you would love to be on and who's the dream podcast guest you would love to interview?
Speaker 2:So I would love to eventually get to the point where I would be on the Diary of a CEO podcast and I have a few more years before I'm there but it's the idea of having the opportunity to inspire so many people at the same time with something that is maybe radically different from the norm that is very appealing to me. Who I would interview is very appealing to me. Who I would interview. I'm currently actually interviewing course professionals, like other people who are working with course creators, and then course creators themselves, and I would love to interview Amy Porterfield and not just like for the surface level stuff. No, I want to talk about how they're designing their email marketing strategy, how they're segmenting their audience. What are the specific tactics they're using to engage and re-engage? What are they doing in terms of repeated promotional content? Yes, that would be a really cool interview.
Speaker 1:Yes, that would be an awesome interview specifically for you serving course creators. I think that's kind of like like the ultimate get right, the ultimate guest to have on your show. Okay, my last question is do you consider yourself a perfectionist?
Speaker 2:I used to. I used to, and that kept me stuck many, many years, because for me, perfectionism worked hand in hand with imposter syndrome. So even though I've been in marketing for, I think, 15 years now and I've done some pretty cool stuff, I didn't talk about it until four or five years ago because in my head I thought I'm not good enough, I'm not perfect yet. So that kept me stuck a long time. But I recently learned to flip the script and consider the fact that for all the years I've kept myself stuck with the idea that I have to be perfect. I developed a skill that is really good at seeing things in detail but not getting lost in them. So that for me, as a copywriter, is an awesome skill to have, because I can spot the tiny details that make a world of difference, but I'm not getting lost in all of the details.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, that's such, it's such good advice and for anybody that's listening, they're probably like oh yeah, that's where I find myself today. But I hope that they got some encouragement just now to flip the script and turn things upside down and, you know, really lean into the places where some of those you know perfectionism tendencies can be helpful and then let like, let's let go of the rest and just keep on going on your journey. But this conversation today has been so much fun, monica, and I appreciate everything that you shared. Like you said, like, well, we'll have to be back on the show, we'll have to have you back because we could continue this conversation in so many other ways. But I know you have your freebies that you wanted to share. You know, for people that want to go further and learn more about copywriting, they want to know about, like, what are some of the things that I should focus on? So can you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:So I currently have a nine email automation freebie, which is basically telling you what are the nine email automations you should have in place if you're selling digital products, whether it's a course or something else and those are awesome because they're gonna save so much of your time and it's gonna help increase retention and increase your revenue, like while you do basically anything else. And you can find it on my website. It's monicabadiucom slash freebie and there's a lot more in there. I mean, I do lots of really cool stuff. I do sales email reviews on my YouTube channel and it's basically to help with what is a good sales email. And you're gonna see that most of those they don't look salesy at all. To see that most of those they don't look salesy at all. Yes, yeah, and it's stuff I find in my inbox, stuff that makes me click and actually purchase stuff. So I kind of tear them apart and I go through the tactics that have been used and give people ideas how they can use them further. So, yeah, I really like doing those.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome. Well, we'll have a link to your freebie and to your YouTube channel for people to go check that out. I love like an audit, like when people are going through and saying this is what's great, this is what sucks, like, let's do this, don't do that, because I think it's helpful to see the tactical pieces like in action and not just talk about them theoretically, about how people can do it. So super exciting. Everybody go check out what Monica is doing and thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me, crystal. This has been a really fun episode and almost like a coaching session for me, so thank you.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow, wow. I mean it's so good, right, Like I mean I don't say this often enough, but we have the best guest here on the podcast. Like this conversation over-delivered on my expectations of what we were going to talk about, because you know I've mentioned this before, but a lot of people get wrapped up in. You know you're going to have a guest on your show. Maybe you've talked about copywriting or maybe email before. We've actually had, you know, zafira Rajan. Like she's come on the show a few times to talk about copywriting. Well, the conversations that I have with Monica today is completely different. Right, it was about AI and how to really focus on conversions and specific pieces of your content to help you launch your product or, you know, sell your digital courses or whatever you're trying to do with your podcast, with your YouTube channel, but I think that it was just. It was so awesome and thank you again, monica, for coming on the show today. You're going to find links to her freebies and all the places where you can connect with her, but please go check her out and it was just such a great conversation and I am just so deeply grateful for the people that come on our show, but we haven't done a fan mail shout out in a while, so I want to give today's shout out. So I know that they are from around Fredericksburg, texas At least this is what's so fun is like I can see where, like the numbers coming from. But you may not live in that area anymore, but you know that's where the original. It just says Fredericksburg, texas and it says for high crystal, we are enjoying the podcast, learning a lot. Our podcast is also on Buzzsprout.
Speaker 1:Simply search for Rollcast Podcast on the Fly. So I did search for it. I went and looked it up and this is Dawn Anderson and Timothy Gikas. So I hope I'm pronouncing your name right, timothy. But it says it's a podcast for avid anglers. So this is people that love to fish Everyday, fly fishers and the fly fish curious who want to enjoy the art of fishing, catch more fish and have fun.
Speaker 1:So thank you all so much for submitting your fan mail and if you wanna be featured on the podcast and you wanna get a shout out, then go to wherever you're listening to the audio version and click send Crystal a text message and you can submit your fan mail that way and get a shout out in the future. So, again, go check out their show. It's called roll cast podcast on the fly and again, thank you so much, don and Timothy, for submitting your fan mail, but that's all I have for you today. So make sure you go check out the show notes for today's episode to learn more about Monica and, as always, remember, keep it up. We all have to start somewhere.
