The Proffitt Podcast
Are you thinking about starting a podcast? Launching a YouTube channel? Repurposing your old blog content into something fresh? Hi, I'm Krystal - host of "The Proffitt Podcast." And I'm happy to say you've come to the right place!
Business owners and content creators dream of building a platform where they can connect deeply with their audience, and marketing feels easy. But I also know what it's like to feel confused and overwhelmed.
Join us weekly as we strip down those processes and remove all the overwhelm with new tips, simple strategies, and great conversations with creators like you. Tune in to hear how I help creators start, launch, and market their content confidently. The motto here is, "We all have to start somewhere."
The Proffitt Podcast
Why Your Content Isn't Working (And How to Fix Your Marketing Strategy)
Experience the journey of transforming your marketing approach with insights from Tayler, a seasoned marketing consultant with an innovative mind behind Enji. Discover how her nearly decade-long expertise revolutionizes how small business owners and entrepreneurs manage their marketing campaigns quickly and confidently. Our serendipitous meeting at the Craft and Commerce conference sparked a conversation on the power of networking. It highlighted how Enji's tools have become a game-changer for my marketing strategies at Proffitt Media.
Navigating the world of entrepreneurship, especially within niche markets like the wedding industry, can often lead to the pitfall of winging it. We unravel the significance of a well-structured marketing plan that alleviates the pressure of decision-making and the myth that marketing can be completely outsourced. For solopreneurs and content creators, this episode is a beacon of understanding how crucial strategic input remains, even when delegating marketing tasks. A successful website is at the heart of this strategy, and we share valuable insights on crafting a digital presence that resonates authentically with clients and enhances user experience.
Uncover the secrets to overcoming marketing hurdles and setting achievable goals with confidence. Learn how recalibrating expectations can foster a more positive outlook, using podcasts as a strategic tool to nurture leads rather than chasing numbers. Tayler sheds light on her journey as a "recovering perfectionist" and how Enji is designed to streamline and simplify content management tasks. This episode is packed with practical advice and inspiration, showcasing Tayler's passion for empowering business growth through effective marketing strategies.
Click the "Send Krystal a Text Message" link above to send us your questions, comments, and feedback on the show! (Pssst...we'll do giveaways in upcoming episodes so make sure you leave your name & podcast title.)
Looking for a podcast community that supports you on your journey? Check out Podcasters Connect today.
So if figure out marketing has been on your to-do list, you are going to love today's interview. I want to give you so much of the backstory, but we really covered it in the interview today. But I have to tell you that Taylor is one of my new favorite people. She like I mean I won't spoil how we met and like all the different things, but I have to tell you like you're going to love this conversation. She is real. She is so dialed in into the digital marketing space and how so many of us are making it way more complicated than it needs to be. And we're going to dive into her incredible product, which I'm a proud user of, and have really started dialing in some of our strategies at Profit Media with her tool. That again, is so fantastic and I'm actually like I'm going to say this right now, taylor, because I'm sure she's going to listen to this that I had done a free trial and then, knowing that she was going to come on the podcast, I was like, oh, you know I should go back and I was super busy when I first tried out her product and then, after our conversation I am not kidding you it was like less than two hours after we chatted, that is the exact conversation you're going to hear today. I was like I have to go sign up for her product. I have to. I need to get all the features, all the cool things. If it's as great as we had just talked about, I need to get it. And let me tell you it is so. You're going to hear all about her product and all the incredible things that she's doing to help small businesses with their marketing.
Speaker 1:But let me tell you a little bit about Taylor. So Taylor is a marketing consultant and small business builder. She's also the founder of Engie, which is an easy-to-use software for small business owners who do their own marketing. With Engie, taylor is taking everything she has learned over nearly a decade of helping small businesses. We totally get into this with their marketing to build the tools you need to do your marketing fast, efficiently and with tons of confidence, because you didn't sign up to be chief marketing officer of your business right At Engie. They believe in becoming one that doesn't have to be so daunting, becoming one that doesn't have to be so daunting. So really stepping into that creator or the creative brain or having that strategy aspect of how you're creating your content. Engie can absolutely help you do that. So I didn't want this to turn into like a full-blown commercial for Engie, because we do talk so much about marketing and things that you can do to have more effective marketing in your business. But I am going to make another plug for it, for you to go check it out, because it's incredible. You're going to understand why after today's episode. So let's get right to it.
Speaker 1:Oh, and one more quick note there is some language in today's episode, so put on those earmuffs or turn on those noise canceling earbuds, so little ears are not tuning in today. Welcome to the Profit Podcast, where we teach you how to start, launch and market your content with confidence. I'm your host, crystal Profit, and I'm so excited that you're here. Thanks for hanging out with me today, because if you've been trying to figure out the world of content creation, this is the show that will help be your time-saving shortcut. So let's get right to it, shall we All? Right, profit Podcast listeners, we have a special guest on the show today. Welcome, taylor. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing pretty well this Monday morning. We're recording things, so you know the sun is shining. I know that before we started hitting record, we were talking about how the weather here in San Diego is just perpetually beautiful, and that's actually not the case, so I am very grateful that the sun is out on this fall day.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, awesome, and I love your shirt. This is actually. This plays into Taylor and I meeting in person. It's not the exact same shirt because we were twinning.
Speaker 2:It is the exact same shirt. Is it the exact same one? This is the shirt. This is the twinning shirt when we were twinning.
Speaker 1:Okay, maybe it was the lights that I was thinking, it was the, because mine's blue, mine's blue and white stripes, so that one's more a tealish. That's actually more my brand color. So I need to know where you got that shirt. But we were at Craft and Commerce earlier this summer and I had realized I'd walked around to all the different vendor booths and then I was like, wait, I don't know what her vendor booth is, but we had actually passed each other and we were both like, hey, nice shirt, like it looks really cute. And then I was like, okay, wait, wait, wait, you're the same person. You actually have a vendor booth here. So let's just kind of start there. What did you think about craft and commerce this year? Had you been before? Was that your first experience?
Speaker 2:Like, tell me all the things. It was my first experience at Craft Commerce and it was such a good time, Like I didn't realize how many people that I know from the internet were going to be descending upon Craft Commerce. Yeah, that's always one of the things that gets me so excited because I work. You know, this is NGHQ, my home office so there could be days that go by and I'm like have I left the house? And so whenever I get to go out into the wild and see people that I interact with on the internet, it's always my favorite. But it was such a fantastic, super well-run conference. I'm not someone who goes to conferences, you know, like someone who has nothing else to do, because we have plenty of other things to do and I don't know. That sounded kind of like an asshole thing to say Dumb. Now, You're good If you are someone who can go to conferences all the time.
Speaker 1:That was not me low-key throwing shade at you, but it's like you got the budget for it right. Like I'm like, I don't have a budget to go to every single conference.
Speaker 2:I could go to.
Speaker 1:So you're good, keep continuing. Correct, correct Bootstrap startup over here.
Speaker 2:But you know, I've been to a lot of conferences and you know, sometimes you can just tell when the event team or the marketing team that put it together hasn't done an event at scale. And Craft Commerce was the exact opposite. It was super well run, the people were amazing, the education was really outstanding and I loved how they had a good mix of sort of more motivational keynotes and then really tactical breakout workshops. It was just a really good mix and you could get what you needed, which is fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, who is your favorite person that you heard speak from stage?
Speaker 2:Ooh who was I think it was is his name John, the one who talked about John.
Speaker 1:Ushai.
Speaker 2:The YouTube one.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, the Beyonce that's like wait what?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, I know and I was standing in the back when he asked the question who's the best marketer? And I turned to Brett and I said Beyonce and I should have yelled it because I would have nailed that one, because everyone was. Someone said Taylor Swift, someone, I think, said Oprah, and then you know, I low-key in the back was like Beyonce of course.
Speaker 1:Duh duh, you just had to whisper it to your husband. You're like well, this is clearly what it is. He was incredible, like he blew my mind with that whole talk and all the examples that he did. So back to your point. It's like the quality of the speakers was so high level and so like impactful and well researched, like I just was like oh, this wasn't somebody that just threw something together for a webinar, like five minutes before this presentation. Like it was so well done.
Speaker 2:So yeah.
Speaker 1:I love, I love hearing that and I'm actually going in 2025. So if no one you know, this is my little mic drop moment of like you know, you should come see the other people that are going to be there, because it is it's one of those that select the vendors and the people that are coming to promote. So you don't feel like I always think about the emoji movie. Have you seen the emoji movie? I have not seen it yet.
Speaker 2:I'm a childless, pet-free, responsibility-free adult, so I only catch wind of certain kid movies.
Speaker 1:You will relate to this, I promise, because, as a business owner and someone that creates content, what there's like this one scene where they're like, walking through you know, it's like all the different emojis that you'd find on your phone and one of them was like a spam, like it was an email that just like keeps talking and it's like, hey, you want to buy this, hey, you want to do that. And it's like, no, no, no, don't touch it. Don't touch it, like there's a firewall for a reason and don't touch it. That's how I feel most vendors are at other conferences. They're just like hey, come over here, would you like to put your email address in and then we'll send you valuable things which never end up valuable at all.
Speaker 1:And like when and when I came over to your booth and you had a demonstration of your product and what it could do, I was like what? Like whoa, hang on, hang on, hang on. Because I had been telling you we were talking about what some of the different product suites that are in my tech stack were missing and your product had all of them. So this is I was just teeing you up beautifully to talk about. Tell us about your business, what the name of your business is and what you do for content creators and business owners.
Speaker 2:Yes, so you know, I think a lot of people who are listening to this I mean you and I are included in this category of business owners who have to do their own marketing. Right, and you know, the latter part of the statement that I usually say is that NG is marketing software for small business owners who have to do their own marketing but aren't marketing experts, because that then covers, you know, that goes from like oh, it's most people, to okay, yeah, it's definitely like most people, because the cliche is true Most of us started our businesses because we were jazzed about doing something and then all of a sudden it was like, oh, there's this thing called marketing. It's like kind of important and I've never done it before, but somehow I need to like not suck at it. And so my background is in marketing consulting and a few years ago we decided to pick up a big bat and take a big swing and do a crazy audacious thing and turn myself into software so that people who are managing and doing their own marketing actually have one system that has most of the components to it and is simple to use.
Speaker 2:My, my hope is that we help people really understand what it is they're supposed to do on the marketing side. And then, because that's basically everyone who ever came to me as a consultant was like Taylor, just tell me what to do, I don't know what to do. And then I really am trying to build all the tools that people need to create their calendar and do it consistently, because it's very unsexy, but consistency is super key in all of this. And then the last piece is knowing if your marketing is working, and so we also have built out tools to make it really simple to track your metrics. So you know kind of seriously, like the big picture, the marketing machine that you're trying to build, and how the pieces are working together. And so that's that's what I get up every morning and tippy tap my computer for obscene number of hours every day, I love it, I love it.
Speaker 1:Question and that is you know, when you were doing your marketing consultancy, was it for a specific niche or was it like kind of a spattering of like oh, you know, there's real estate people, there's you know someone that does wheel brick and mortar, someone does online, and is there like an overarching theme of mistakes that most business professionals are making Totally?
Speaker 2:So my this is like so strange, because I never thought I was going to be an entrepreneur. I thought I was going to be a teacher, you know in a community college classroom being a professor, but B once I became self-employed and had a, I was like oh, I have clients. The industry that I landed in was the wedding industry.
Speaker 2:And because my first clients were a florist here locally, and right next door there was a wedding photographer, and so they were my first clients and then they were the type of people to actually share and refer the thing that all of a sudden made their marketing different, which was me, and so for a long time I was really just working with wedding professionals of all types under that big umbrella, but it naturally definitely started to segue into just creative services.
Speaker 2:So anyone you know so website designers, copywriters, photographers that were doing, you know so website designers, copywriters, photographers that were doing, you know, branding, photography and all that kind of stuff Because there is, there is this sort of connection between the wedding world and the creative services world, where sometimes, when people decide that they want to step out of weddings, they step into that space, and so that's really my, my super comfort. Like space is okay If, if you are a photographer or a website designer or someone who is selling creative based services, yeah, let's talk. Yeah, and so it's been a super fun niche to be in, and but I have worked with businesses like coffee shops and you know, like there was a local gym that I worked with, but those were always the I say this with love the clients that I booked for the paycheck, Not the portfolio piece, because you do that. That's just a part of the game when you're, you know, hustling for every dollar that lands in your bank account.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so, no matter which you know service provider or whoever you're working with, was there like a key thing that when you sat down to create Engie, you were like, oh, this has to be in the product, like this is the thing that I saw my clients it's the same mistake they all made, or it's the thing that I wish that they would have known on day one when they started their business? What was like, if you could pinpoint one thing that was really key to marketing for success for those clients, what would it be?
Speaker 2:It's that everybody was winging it Totally, just waking up every day and was like maybe I'll do something. And if I do do something, I don't exactly know in this moment what it would be, but I'll figure it out in the next 45 minutes, I guess. And that's exactly the thing that makes marketing so stressful is in that moment you're putting this pressure on yourself to basically make a CEO level decision in. You know, my fingers are very close together if you're not watching this in this much time, and then it just you automatically feel like you're in a pressure cooker because all of a sudden, this pretty simple act feels like it has so much more weight to it. And so the first thing that we ever talked about NGBing was something that helps people create a marketing strategy. So they're at least they've got the lane defined. But then because of that tell me what to do phrase that people would just say to me over and over again.
Speaker 2:It wasn't just the strategy. It was that the strategy. I really wanted it to create a roadmap of tasks that people could do, so that a lot of the decision-making at least the first pass of the decision-making was done and no one was being left to work from a blank slate, so that's for sure. I call it marketing by accident a lot of days. But whether you call it winging it or flying by the seat of your pants, it all means the same thing is that there's not an actual plan that you're trying to implement. You're just building the plane as you fly it.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I feel like my audience just said, oh Crystal, you didn't tell us this was going to be a tough love episode because Taylor's coming in with the truth. Like I really feel, because I know so many of my audience there One, they fall into that category of like I'm not a marketing professional, I just started this podcast and I want to create content so they know that marketing is important, right? Otherwise they wouldn't be focusing on their content. But then they get into this weird mindset of like I created this thing, I just want people to find it. Why do I have to talk about it? I already created it Because, again, there's a lot of solopreneurs, there's a lot of content creators that are here.
Speaker 1:They're like I planned this thing, I recorded this thing, I edited this thing, I recorded this thing, I edited this thing, I published this thing, but it's just, I don't have enough energy to talk about. I already talked about it. I want to go take a nap. That's where so many of them fall. So this is really why I wanted you to come on and just nerd out about digital marketing and talk about where so many people are falling short, and I do think that they fall into a lot of the audience falls into that winging it category or believing that they can just hire someone and not onboard them, not do anything. Like just say, oh no, you just like here's my issue, go fix it. Like I don't know, I don't want to make any, I don't care, like please, just go fix it and come back to me. So is that kind of the approach that you've seen some people take to?
Speaker 2:100%, you know. And then if they take that second approach of you know, just trying to 100% outsource their marketing without truly onboarding someone or having a documented plan of like, hey, here's how I think about my business, then that's where you get into the space where they come to people like you or me. We just have conversations with folks saying I hired someone and they're not doing a good job, and I'm like, of course, they're not doing a good job.
Speaker 2:You didn't set them up for success, right. And the other sort of asterisk on that is a big mistake that I see people making is just hiring a general VA to do their marketing. And a VA is someone who can come and do things for you, right, like implement, execute. Give them a task list and they will just crush through it. But marketing is not just a task list. Right, it is equal parts, art and science. Right, there's mechanics to it, but there's also this very creative component to it.
Speaker 2:And if you are your brand, I'm assuming that a lot of your audience, their brand, is them, right, and so when you add that on top of it, then it's like if you haven't been able to really communicate to this person how you think about things, how you approach things, what are the messages that you need to say all of these other pieces of marketing then, yeah, it's not going to work.
Speaker 2:So, like it's, marketing is this big messy soup of things and if you build it, they will not come. Yeah, because the core I think the way that I like to talk about what marketing is now in plain English is marketing is the things that you do to make sure that people know you exist, and if they don't know that you exist, they're not going to listen to your podcast episode because they don't know it's available. And so I know that you spend all this time planning things out, producing it, publishing it and just being like I did it. But that's just the first phase of things, and then there's this whole other piece to it, which is the marketing piece.
Speaker 1:Okay, and now I want to kind of get into that psychology piece of it, right, because there's a lot of people that I mean, and this is why I have the weekly newsletter. It's called Content Therapy and it's where I just tell these stories because I'm like oh, no, no, no, I feel like a therapist when I talk to people about their content and their marketing, because they'll say to me like that's being salesy or that's being braggy, and I don't want to do any of that, I just want to produce the thing.
Speaker 2:I want to put it out into the world?
Speaker 1:Yes, and I just want them to come flocking by the millions to my website. But then I literally will have to say what would happen tomorrow if I just told you you're going to have a million visitors to your website. If they came, would they know what to do? Would they get on your email list? Would they know to buy your product or listen to your website? And most of the time the answer is no. So when people are coming to use Engie and they're coming to set up their business for success what's kind of like cause we talked about, like ecosystems, like before we started chatting I was like let's talk about a marketing ecosystem or what that could even look like. Can you give us an example of what setting your business up for success can look like when you make it to where? Oh, I got a million people visit my website and they did the thing. They did the thing that I wanted them to do. What's the first step just to even get somebody's business to that process?
Speaker 2:I mean, the first step is that your website needs to be great, because all of your marketing, all of it points people to your website at some point. Right, I think the podcast space is a little bit different, because oftentimes we're sending people to the platforms that they can. You know all the streaming platforms, but when push comes to shove, and streaming platforms are just like everything else, you don't own that piece of real estate. If that site goes down, you know you're not going to like call up the Apple team and say, hey, what's going on here? But if your website goes down, then you have the, you have the agency to fix it to be a solid foundation. And your copy needs to be great, to use a jargony term, like your UX and UI, which is user interface and user experience. Those need to be really well thought out.
Speaker 2:And if anyone's listening to this and going like I have never heard those letters before, then just think of it as how the design of your website is guiding people to different parts and towards some sort of ultimate action that you want them to take.
Speaker 2:And so the other thing is making sure that there is a pathway to someone becoming a purchaser, however, that looks for your business on your website. Like that, there are no dead ends. Yeah, so you know that is always step one I it doesn't matter what type of business you run, if you're product or service based or whatever I'm like is your website functional and is your website communicating all the things that it needs to communicate? And is your website communicating all the things that it needs to communicate Because it is there, working for you 100% of the time? And if it's not doing its job, then that's only getting in your way of downloads, sales, bookings, whatever it is you're trying to get people to convert to. So that's always the first and most important piece in a marketing ecosystem, in the age of the internet and within a space where someone is doing a lot of digital marketing, yeah, and I love this so much.
Speaker 1:When you're talking about UI and UX, I immediately am bringing it back to the spam in the emoji movie, because it's like if you go out to Pinterest and you're looking for a recipe and you go to one of these sites, I have one anxiety just knowing that as soon as I open this link, it's just going to be like pop up, pop up, pop up ads, ads, ads, like all of that. Because they're not thinking about their UI, ux. All they're thinking about is clicks. They just want clicks to their site. They want views. The eyeballs is where they are making their money Most of you listening to this today. That's not where your money is. Your money's in your services, your digital products and all these other places. So when you think about UI and UX, I always put myself in my customer's shoes. It's like what do I want to see? So I'm so curious. You like, as a consumer, like, do you have any examples of? Like, a website that you just love or someone that you're like? I feel so calm and peaceful when I go to their website.
Speaker 2:That is a good question, actually, and that's I have an easy answer. You met Davy Jones and Caleb at ConvertKit, at the Craft and Commerce and their website, so their company is Bedal, bedal Always said with exclamation right Bedal. I love their website so much and I know that Davy's wife Krista, who's a very talented website designer, she designed the website and then someone from the ShowIt team designed the brand. But it is simple and it's easy to navigate and aesthetically I like looking at it.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I'm not just being like punched like just hooks all over the place with, even though they are a pop-up piece of software I'm not being like bombarded with things communicates important information, but it's still clean and easy to get here, there and everywhere, and it's something that's quite honestly fun, because their brand is fun, the colors are fun and I just love it.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, that's such a good one. We'll link to that in the show notes because they have. I love. I don't remember if it's a case study section on the main page or if it's on a different page, but they did it so well where they showcased testimonials. But it wasn't even like and maybe it's because they're a SaaS company, right but I remember looking at them and thinking like, oh, these are fun ideas. And they were actively. Again going back to the sales piece of it, they were actively trying to sell me this product. That's like here, here's how this person used it. But the testimonials for it or the case studies were done in such an easy way where it didn't feel like I was being assaulted by marketing, like it was just like oh, this is lovely, this is so nice here. I will come back, I will visit again, yep.
Speaker 2:Yep, no, the team over there is super smart and I would put them in the startup phase of things too, because they recently took over that company and so they're re-imagining it and all that kind of fun stuff. And so it's fun to also have Davey as a friend who's on a similar journey, because I know that he and the team are just they're pouring everything into it and it's it's nice, it's really nice to see how intentional everything is. So you know, that's that's one of the best things that anyone can do with their marketing is is be really intentional with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm thinking about you, so I was just about to call you a start-upper. I don't know if that's the right phrasing, that we want to go with. Yeah, I'm a start-upper, I mean because you're a founder like you're doing all these things and I'm like, ooh, start-upper sounds right Like y'all are start-uppers.
Speaker 1:We'll put the. We're just making up words over here, but I'm looking at, like kind of the digital landscape and all the things. So, when we're recording this, there's a lot of big changes for a lot of the SaaS companies that have been around for a while. Right, like Kajabi just did this huge rebrand Kit, just announced their huge rebrand. So I feel like a lot of people are trying to get like a fresh take, whether it's oh, now we have AI integrated into what we're doing, or we're fresh on the scene, even though we've been around for a decade, like kind of thing.
Speaker 1:So, as a founder, as a startup or you know, with your business, what does that look like Like for you to? You know you have customers, you have members, or you know I would I would say like people, your users, that are using your product on a regular basis. What is that? Even like Like, tell us what it's like. You know in two minutes what it's like to just to be a SaaS founder and because you said you wanted to be a teacher, like it's so different, like it's a different part of your journey that you never imagined that.
Speaker 1:So what is that?
Speaker 2:like yes, and quickly before we dive in. I'm like someone needs to come up with a better word for what we call our users, because it sounds like we're like peddling drugs and we're looking for users.
Speaker 1:You're a cult leader or something.
Speaker 2:I know, but you know users, subscribers we always default to users, but you know, the experience of starting a startup is like, I mean, it's kind of outside of yourself in a lot of ways, because the first thing is, if you are the person who's the product visionary that's, you know how we typically how we we the proverbial startup community talks about certain founders, the proverbial startup community talks about certain founders If you're the product visionary, you have to be able to take these very abstract thoughts and somehow communicate them to other humans in a way that helps them understand exactly what it is you see in your mind and gives them the requirements that they need to be able to even come close to building the right thing right. So, and those are two very like it's two very different types of people that tend to be product visionaries on one side and then the engineers on the other, and their brains work differently. Like you typically have someone who is a, you know, a dreamer, a big thinker, a creative sort of problem solver over here is the product visionary, and then on the other side, you have people whose brains work in zeros and ones. Yeah, that's. That's always an interesting dynamic that you it's a skill that you need to learn and you can learn it over time for sure, but you know it's for a startup in the space that Engie operates in, which is the, you know, the SMB space, the small medium business space, but really our, our ideal user and community is built around solopreneurs for the most part, and so we're like looking at micro businesses, yeah, and so the way that then we have to think about what the software is and how it needs to work and like what are the outcomes that people want the software to facilitate? It's very different for someone who's doing their own marketing versus someone who has, you know, even a team of five people doing marketing. Right, like the marketing can be at scale at that point if you have five people working with you and if you are doing it by yourself, it's not at scale. But you feel the pressure to somehow do marketing at scale. Yes, the other piece of it is just the relentlessness of all of the things. Yeah, and it is a startup. Is that experience times 100 on all of the steroids, with all of the pressure, like it's just, it's a very different animal.
Speaker 2:I, in general, I don't recommend most people try to do this. Yes, yeah, yeah, but if you are in the right space and you have some of the right resources, then it can be the coolest thing that you've ever done, but it is relentless. Like I work obscene number of hours every day. I don't say that as a badge of honor, I do not. Yeah, I know it is like very unhealthy. I know it is like very unhealthy.
Speaker 2:So, like I work a lot of hours, I work a lot over the weekends as well. I still sleep eight hours a night. I still eat my meals, I still move my body five days a week. So I'm like I'm not living on the edge If it sounds like I'm living on the edge, but it just it takes up all of your brain space. It takes up all of your your brain space, yeah and um, when you are not working, you really feel like the, the I guess guilt would be the right word like there's a lot of guilt every moment I step away from it because I'm like but I'm trying to build a really big business off of a 29 a month software. Like every moment that I'm not working on it feels like it should be. So that's just the like, the messy soup of all of the things that are just a part of the experience.
Speaker 1:Well, and you, you know, you touched on something that we kind of talked about earlier before we started recording, and I was like stop, we have to bring this back up. We were talking about just having the grit and I want you, if you can remember the phrasing that you said, I would love for you to share that because I think, well, first of all, when did you start Engie? What year did you launch we?
Speaker 2:launched in May of 2023, but we worked behind the scenes for two and a half years just to get to that moment that we hit.
Speaker 1:go on it so a long time I was going to say do you remember the phrasing that you said earlier when you were talking about? I think I do. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty sure that I said you have to have the stomach for a lot of discomfort, a lot of discomfort, and if you can't sit in that space then you fall into that camp of like. You definitely shouldn't start a startup. It's just discomfort every damn day. There's something that makes me uncomfortable. There's something that makes me go like tweaky in my chair or makes me want to go take a hot shower and just stand under the faucet. It's just all of these things and I the the media typically only shows you the unicorns where you wake up, and it's. I mean, I'm obsessed with Flowdesk. Flowdesk is one of my favorite little unicorns. They're not little. I should have not said little because they're at 27 million ARR in five years. Um, I would love that to be us. Be us, but that is not the norm. Not the norm. It's called a unicorn in the startup world for a reason because it is this elusive thing that you are extremely lucky to experience if it is your company.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that it's such a beautiful tie-in because I know some people are listening. They're like well, I'm not a founder, I'm not a startup, I'm creating content. But it goes back to the same mentality and psychology of a lot of people that are listening. They start a podcast and they see people that start podcasts and all of a sudden they get 10 million downloads in their first year. And then someone listening to this show is like but I only got a thousand in the first like four months of my show.
Speaker 1:And like, what am I doing wrong? They quit, they decide to pivot and go a totally different direction. So I'm just so curious. Like what do you lean on? Like you're in that discomfort, you're questioning everything because we've all been there where we're. Like, am I doing the right thing? Like, should I just? Should I go back and get a teaching job? Should I go back and get a nine to five? Like, is this thing so damn hard that I just I'm not cut out for it? Like, what are some of the resources that you lean on? You know?
Speaker 2:my, my little pocket of community, like I am constantly. There's a short list of people who, I'm very thankful, will respond to these texts and answer these phone calls. But I'm basically like am I crazy? Am I fucking crazy, or is this just? Is this the norm for what people experience with this? Is this the norm for what people experience with this?
Speaker 2:Because when you work by yourself, it is so easy to think that I'm not the only one who is either experiencing this or has experienced it that it is within the, you know, within reality to a certain degree, because I don't want to be the outlier in a bad way, right, but other than or in addition to that, you know the expectations and goals that you set, I think are also really important, and sometimes I have changed those numeric goals or expectations that I've had because, rather than just thinking I failed, I failed, I failed. Sometimes it's like, yeah, just drop the number, just drop the number, make it something that is way closer to your reality, where it's just like a little reach instead of a gigantic stretch for the stars, and then you can put yourself in this sort of positive reinforcement loop of okay, I am actually making a little bit like little baby steps, little baby steps versus feeling like you didn't take the giant one that you hoped.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's probably some of the best advice we've ever heard on the podcast, and I just like the quote for this whole episode is going to be just drop the number Like it's. Drop that expectation of saying, well, I got to get a million downloads, otherwise, this is a failure. And it's like, no, what if you just got 100 downloads? Like 100. We're not shooting for tens of thousands, like just 100 or 100 views on a YouTube video or an Instagram post or like whatever it is. Because I think it, I think you're totally right. It's like I've done this whole cycle of abuse in my head. That's like you know, I got to get 10,000 subscribers on, you know, on my YouTube channel or on my email list, and it's like it's like a constant battle. It's like a you feel like a punching bag, like you are your own punching bag.
Speaker 1:But then if I were to say no, no, no, what if I just got 20 in the next two weeks or the next month or whatever that number could look like for anybody, and I think that that's just a great mental perspective shift on how we look at our businesses, super, super helpful. So thank you for sharing that. Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:You know, and the other, one of the other things that I have sometimes thought about is does this thing? Did I put it in sort of the right part of my marketing plan, in the right part of my marketing funnel? And one of the things with my podcast that I definitely put it in the wrong part of the marketing funnel for sure, 100%. Hi, my name is Taylor. I make mistakes, just like everybody else.
Speaker 2:I thought that the podcast was going to be more top of funnel where I was helping people discover me and Engie, and that we would see a lot more people starting an Engie trial after listening to the Pretty Okay podcast.
Speaker 2:Wasn't the case, but where the podcast actually sits is in that nurture part of our marketing funnel, where someone has already discovered Engie and is like looking at it, trying to figure out if they like it, they want to see who the human is behind it, and so they start listening to the podcast and then they quickly I mean I think everyone listening has already like I get Taylor. It's a space where people can come to get to know me and how I think about things, and so that's actually where the podcast sits in our marketing funnel and so I had to a drop the numbers because I also was like, oh, we're going to get 500 downloads a month. That was my goal and that didn't happen. We're sitting more in the like 200 a month, so it's fine. But yeah, we're we're getting fewer downloads every month and that's fine. But it is serving a purpose for the business because it's now in this nurture phase of marketing versus where I originally had it and how I originally set numbers around it.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that's another gift, too that you just gave. The audience is just re-evaluating. Just because a lot of podcasters do use podcasts as their top of funnel, it's their place for a lead magnet or it's their place for whatever. It doesn't have to be where it is. You could just reserve that for, like hey, I'm attracting my high ticket $20,000 coaching clients and they'd be the only ones that would get that. And that's again to Taylor's point. It's like you're going to have to drop the number for that because that's not going to relate to the masses. The masses won't get that. So I love that.
Speaker 1:It goes back to what you're talking about with an ecosystem, like thinking about your marketing not as like I have to create another Instagram post that's not going to perform and no one's going to like it, no one's going to enjoy it. Like, why am I doing this anyway? It's zooming out and asking do I even have an ecosystem today? And if you don't like, that's the first place that you start. And this is where I want to get a little braggadocious on Engie, because I told you I would talk about some of the features and then I want to circle back and talk about your podcast again because that's super exciting. But, ng, so when you showed me the demonstration when we were at Craft Commerce, the thing that I told you, I was like I love my Asana, I love it so much and I'm struggling with social media. And you're like, okay, well, you know, go, I did my whole free trial. The thing that was so fascinating to me that I got kicked in the face like NG lovingly, lovingly kicked me right between my eyes and was like dummy, why have you not seen this before? I had been spending a lot of time in. Again, I'm calling myself out. I was the Instagram person. It's like I've got to put another post, because all the experts say you've got to put out a post every day and put something in your stories and put everything. And then you've got to do the YouTube and the podcast and you've got to just the content, the content, the content.
Speaker 1:But when I really stood back and said, well, where are my leads coming from? And you have this lovely intake form, everybody listening to this. Go to Engie, we're going to have a link to it and I want you to get a trial so that you can do the intake form that has you, as the business owner, evaluate your own business. Because what I realized there was a question in there it's like where are your leads coming from your best customers, where are your best customers coming from? Because that's what we all want, right, we want to replicate those best customer relationships. They're not coming from my YouTube, they're not coming from my podcast, they are referrals or they're affiliates. These are people already in my community, already familiar with me. So why am I trying to get all these eyeballs from all these other people when the quality relationships and the people I really want to work with are already in my database? Like they're here.
Speaker 1:And it was like I can't remember how it was worded, but like on the screen where it says like this is your marketing strategy and I'm telling y'all you'll have to go get like you have to have Engie do this for you. It doesn't take long and you can get it done. But it gave me my three. It was kind of like a Venn diagram of like these are the three things that you should focus on, and referrals and affiliates were the top ones. And I'm like, oh my, I felt this immediate pressure come off of me, of immediate pressure come off of me of, oh, that's right Like those are the easiest people to work with and those are when I have the most fun is when I have a community full of those people. So there's my experience with NG. I don't know if you have any, have any other, any feedback on that or anything else?
Speaker 2:analyze it, but yeah, no, that's amazing. That's exactly what we're trying to do is there's so much pressure to show up in all of the places and to show up at a pace that is just not sustainable. And it's because my hypothesis around this is because we all have these like aspirational figures that, yes, in business that we follow, and all of them specialize in a different thing. And so then all of a sudden, we're like, oh well, this person says I should be doing this, and this person says I should be doing that, and this person says I should be doing that. And all of a sudden you're like, oh, that is too many things and I can't do it.
Speaker 2:And so one of my I am a hardcore realist. The teacher in me is like how do we break this down into something that you can actually achieve? And so it is very important to me that we are taking that we are building simple, realistic marketing strategies for people. That someone actually phrased it to me this way and I was like, yeah, I'm going to start using it. Like, basically, I'm writing y'all a permission slip to not do certain things, because we're just going to focus on the things that are most likely to give you a return on your investment, whether that's time, money or resources. Give you a return on your investment, whether that's time, money or resources. And as a one person marketing department, three places honestly, is what you have the capacity for. It's just a fact and everyone's just in denial about it because of that pressure that we get from the internet.
Speaker 1:So if that's the only thing that someone takes away from this conversation, I hope that that permission slip to just let certain things go, whether that's numbers or marketing channels, that that is the thing that people walk away with in a while, like if you've just been grinding and grinding and grinding and you're like, well, this is what I've been doing for the last five years and we're kind of chugging along like you need to do some sort of evaluation on your business. I do it at least once a year where I step back and say, ok, what did I love, what did I not love? Like, what do I want to do more of? And like it really just helped me.
Speaker 1:Having that perspective.
Speaker 1:It's like a you know it's your marketing bestie. That's just you know on your computer that you can talk to anytime you want, like that's the thing, and you have the AI like integrated already. Where it's like you know it helps you really make the process so much easier for making decisions Because, again, it's not only the marketing strategy but it helps you make those decisions where it's like what do you want to do in the next, like five to six months, not like where do you want to be in the next five to 10 years, because I know there's a lot of people that get overwhelmed by those ideas and we live in the digital space that everything is moving at lightning speed anyway. So I think that the practicality is built into every step of Engie, and just the fact that y'all have an integrated like social media scheduler. I don't know if you could talk about that for a second, but that's another piece that's pretty like, oh, cherry on top, like, let's go. This is going to make my life so much easier, so can you talk about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I don't feel like small business owners have been set up for success with marketing, and part of the reason that I feel that way is because we all have just been forced into a space where we have to use seven different pieces of software to do our marketing, and for some people that's fine, right.
Speaker 2:If you are very marketing minded and you understand the ecosystem or the machine that you're trying to build, then, yeah, you can use seven pieces of software.
Speaker 2:But for those of you listening who are like, marketing is so overwhelming to me, and I just I don't know up from down here then the fewer tabs that you can do it in, the better, and so it was really important to me that we built something that reduced the number of tabs that someone would need. And so there's the strategy, which is you know, hey, we're going to help you make the plan, but then we're actually going to help you do the plan as well, because there is an AI copywriter with different prompts that you can use it for. There's the social media scheduler as well, and we're continually retooling the things to make them more impactful and more time-saving, but we don't want you to have to go to four other tabs in order to take this task that was on your marketing calendar and market complete. Like it's super cool to just see. Hey, I need to say I need to schedule my social media content and in the same calendar, literally just do it right without having to go somewhere else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which, again, like I have too many tabs open right now. Like I'm looking at my computer, I'm like, hmm, yeah it. It's nice to reduce all of that, condense it into one place and have just this like one destination. You could call Engie like your CMO if that's what you need to do, but it's like having that place where you have this creative outlet for you to really dump all of your marketing ideas but also be strategic with it. I think that's the play and that's again why I love this so much. But, taylor, this has been so fun. I have a few rapid fire questions before we officially, officially, wrap up.
Speaker 1:So are you ready for them? Yes, Okay. So the first one is what piece of advice would you give to a brand new podcaster or content creator?
Speaker 2:Ooh, that would be to create a content distribution plan which is basically, it's basically marketing, right, like, after you put all this effort into getting a podcast episode recorded, how are you going to make sure that people know it exists, that it's there for them to listen to? Because, like we talked about earlier, if you build, if you build it, they will not come. Yeah, that's really good.
Speaker 1:Okay, my next one is a two part question, and the first piece is what is the dream podcast you would love to be on and who is a dream podcast guest you would love to interview?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's um. I recently got connected with jess extram and I'm pretty obsessed with her and so I actually think that she's the she's the answer to both of those questions. I would love to be on her podcast because, as a teacher, I love public speaking and I so I love like the mission of her work. But then also I did have the opportunity to just have a conversation with her once and she's so chill and so fun to talk to that I would love to have her on as a guest as well.
Speaker 1:I love that. I would totally listen to either one of those you're you on hers, her on yours Like I think that would be such a fun conversation. Okay, and then my last question is do you consider yourself a perfectionist?
Speaker 2:Ooh, recovering, perfectionist, recovering Definitely more of a control freak than a perfectionist. I've always been very biased for action and so sometimes that means, yeah, I kick the bird out the nest when things only half baked. Yeah, but there are certain things Engie's homepage is a good example Like ask me how many times I've already rewritten that thing, and we've only been live for like a year and a half. So yeah, you know there are some aspects of life and business where I pursue perfection, but in general I tried to not let myself get stuck in that loop.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so good and you are among so many other recovering perfectionists around here, so you are in great company. But this was so fun, taylor, so we kind of skimmed over your podcast. So like I just I want to call it out like tell everybody where they can listen to your show, what the name of it is and where they can go to snag their free trial of NG.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you can go snag your free trial of NG at the web or on the website. So, enjico, and the podcast is the Pretty Okay Podcast, because how are we all doing Pretty okay, because how are we all doing Pretty okay. So the website is prettyokaypodcastcom and the Instagram handle is at prettyokaypodcast.
Speaker 1:Okay, and I have to give a plug for Engie's Instagram, because I love it so much. I think that you have been I don't know if it's just experimenting with like different content or what but I like you pop up in my feed and I'm like oh, what's Taylor doing today? Like she's going to do something funny. So if you're into humor, like Taylor nails it every time. Like every time I see it and I'm like, oh my God. One, it's so relatable. Two, it's hilarious. And three, it just like solidifies. Like this was a good follow. It's a good follow on Instagram. So I'm going to make a plug for that too, because it's really good.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Yes, If you'd like to see me do ridiculous things, please you can follow on Instagram to see all that ridiculousness.
Speaker 1:Yes, Okay, Taylor, thank you so much for coming on the show today. This was a masterclass in marketing and so so helpful.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. I mean, we need to have more conversations, because I know that this is just like 2% of all the things that you and I could nerd out about. So thank you so much for having me. Yes, we'll have to have a part two soon.
Speaker 1:So I told you you are going to love everything about Taylor. She was raw, she was real and that's exactly what you get in person Because, like I said, we met at you know craft and commerce which again I'm going to next year already bought my ticket. It is like sense of delivered I just haven't even booked my flight or hotel but my ticket is sealed, like I have that thing and I'm for sure going next year because I meet really high quality people, just like Taylor. And having her in my back pocket now to ask these questions about marketing and really almost like comparing notes of like what's actually happening in the industry that our content creators need to pay attention to and what are the big trends that you're seeing as a SaaS product founder and all the things that she's doing as a startup. And I mean it's just we've become fast friends on Instagram and our DMs. And again, taylor, if you're listening, thank you so much for bringing so much value to today's episode and we have, like I want you to go try out Engie when I told you in the beginning that it was one that I was kind of like okay, I did my free trial right after we met, but then I had so much going on this summer I didn't have a chance to go back and look for it. But I found myself literally looking for a solution to the problems I was still having. And then I opened Engie up and I was like, oh, this literally solves like five of my problems in one platform, which is what I'm all about. So I want you to go to crystalprofitcom forward slash Engie, e-n-j-i I'm a proud affiliate for them and I want you to go check it out because you know, I kind of talked a little bit in the episode about why I liked it, but even after we recorded this, I've used it more and the thing that I like is it keeps all of our goals front and center. There's no question about what we're trying to do at Profit Media.
Speaker 1:But the other thing I mean I'm just going to be so honest it's the dashboards. Y'all I love our KPI dashboards, where I had my VA go in and he imported all of our podcast stats for the year. What are we getting month over month? There's an integration with YouTube so that automatically pulls everything in and we're able to see how our email list is growing, how many sales we have, how many members are in our brand new membership. Like all of these things in one dashboard that I didn't have to sit and build out or have like this super fancy dashboard that was built for me that cost thousands and thousands of dollars.
Speaker 1:Like, all of this is in one monthly subscription and I can, like, go grab your free trial. I cannot stress enough how incredible this platform is. So, again, go to crystalprofitcom forward, slash E-N-J-I to try it out. But that's all I have for you today. So again, thank you so much, taylor, for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom. Y'all, make sure and go snag your free trial of Engie today. Again, crystalprofitcom forward, slash Engie. And that's all I have for you. So make sure you are subscribed or following, wherever you are listening, and, as always, remember, keep it up. We all have to start somewhere.
