The Proffitt Podcast
Are you thinking about starting a podcast? Launching a YouTube channel? Repurposing your old blog content into something fresh? Hi, I'm Krystal - host of "The Proffitt Podcast." And I'm happy to say you've come to the right place!
Business owners and content creators dream of building a platform where they can connect deeply with their audience, and marketing feels easy. But I also know what it's like to feel confused and overwhelmed.
Join us weekly as we strip down those processes and remove all the overwhelm with new tips, simple strategies, and great conversations with creators like you. Tune in to hear how I help creators start, launch, and market their content confidently. The motto here is, "We all have to start somewhere."
The Proffitt Podcast
Mastering Podcast Swaps and Guesting: Strategies for Authentic Connections and Success
Want to learn the secrets to elevating your podcast game? We promise you'll walk away with a toolbox full of strategies for podcast swaps and guesting. Join our chat with guest, Sam Brake-Guia from Podwritten, as we reveal the art of connecting with like-minded hosts and crafting pitches that resonate.
Together, we reflect on our podcasting journeys, sharing amusing tales of mismatched pitches and the triumphs of finding the perfect podcast fit. We explore the transformation from the nerve-racking early days to the confident and articulate hosts we've become, all while emphasizing the importance of delivering value and authenticity to our audiences.
Ever wondered how to make your podcast pitch stand out? We break down the common pitfalls and highlight the elements of a winning pitch. Sam shares his insights on positioning yourself as an expert and the importance of showcasing unique value rather than just personal achievements.
Through practical examples, including Sam's own successful pitch, we illustrate how thorough research and social proof can open doors to invaluable opportunities. Additionally, we delve into leveraging agency networks to extend your reach, sharing stories of unexpected success that can inspire your podcasting journey.
The final segment is a heartfelt exploration of high-quality content and its impact on storytelling and connection. We discuss the fine line between striving for quality and chasing perfection, offering our tips on maintaining passion and consistency in content creation. Highlighting Sam's platform, Podwritten, we invite listeners to explore resources that could aid their podcasting endeavors. Whether you're a seasoned podcaster or just starting out, this episode offers a blend of practical advice and motivational insights to fuel your podcasting passion.
Click the "Send Krystal a Text Message" link above to send us your questions, comments, and feedback on the show! (Pssst...we'll do giveaways in upcoming episodes so make sure you leave your name & podcast title.)
Looking for a podcast community that supports you on your journey? Check out Podcasters Connect today.
I love a good podcast swap Okay, like it is. Just, it makes my life so much easier and I hope that you get to experience this as a podcast host. But when someone reaches out and you realize, oh my gosh, we could really jive and have incredible conversations, then I hope that you can jump on the opportunity to have that, because it's exactly what we have today and I'm really excited to share with you this conversation that Sam and I have. So I chatted with Sam Brake-Gia and so he is from Podwritten and it's him and his wife. They co-founded Podwritten and I mean we nerd out, we nerd out so bad about podcast guesting and just being a podcast host and, of course, all the things all the things that I love to nerd out about. But it was really fun to chat with someone who's been in the industry. We started around the same time and we have the same experiences and we met some of the same people and we just both really want to help content creators get more visibility, have their messages just mean so much more and be so much bigger. Because I believe in you I don't know if I've told you that in a while, but I truly believe in what you're doing and the awesome things that you wanna do as a creator, and I love helping to push that mission forward and give you the right tools, the right strategies, like all the things that you need to succeed, and that's really where we just totally nerded out. So Sam and I really get into it.
Speaker 1:But this was a quick turnaround. What I mean by that is he reached out to me and then I was like I saw this like open time on my calendar and I was like, oh my gosh, yep, let's do this, let's go ahead. We booked a two hourhour time slot and we recorded on the Profit Podcast and then we recorded on his show, mics to Millions, and it was like boom, boom. Back to back. Let's just talk about all these things so high level. We talked about pitching other podcasts. We talked about positioning yourself as the expert. We talked about the pros and the cons and the good and the bad and the journey of podcasting and content creation, but also what it's like to receive pitches, and we just kind of went in so many different directions. But if getting on more podcasts and gaining that more visibility is a goal for you in 2025 and beyond, then you're going to love this conversation. So let's get right to it.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Profit Podcast, where we teach you how to start, launch and market your content with confidence. I'm your host, crystal Profit, and I'm so excited that you're here. Thanks for hanging out with me today, because if you've been trying to figure out the world of content creation, this is the show that will help be your time-saving shortcut. So let's get right to it, shall we All? Right? Profit Podcast listeners? We have a special guest on the show today, and actually this doesn't happen often, but we just finished an hour already together recording, so I am so happy to welcome Sam onto the show today, welcome.
Speaker 2:Hey, thank you so much for having me here. It's been wonderful chatting for the past hour and I cannot wait for us to continue this conversation.
Speaker 1:Yes, like actually, I want to know, like let's just start there. Like do you do many podcast swaps, like where you work with someone and then you're like you know what, I think I really want you on my show, or like vice versa. Does that happen often?
Speaker 2:for you. Actually, you might be surprised, I'm actually quite selective. The reason being is because I believe podcast hosts need to be so protective of their audience.
Speaker 2:So I'm never gonna offer a swap to someone unless I really feel like, a I can add value for their audience and their audience is someone I want to speak with and, b I'm like perfectly happy to have them on my show and it's kind of hard to like balance that criteria. So I'm actually more selective than you might think and I end up actually sending more pitches inviting people just on my show as it is, because I'm also appreciative of the fact that I'm not just going to like shove my topic in there when their audience isn't ready for that and yeah, so I'm very conscious of, like, the audience that I'm like I'm just conscious of audiences.
Speaker 1:I guess that's the easiest and simplest way of saying that and what they want yeah, and just for you know, because I love saying, my audience loves a behind the scenes, so any, any stories you have to share. But this is one actually, like you just pitched, pitched me last week like I feel like all of this happened boom, boom, boom, super fast, and that doesn't. That typically doesn't happen around here. It's like, okay, here's the link, let's make sure this works. But I have to say and I'm just going to brag on you, so let me know if this makes you a little uncomfortable this was so well done, okay, and this is why, like I told Sam, I was like I delete 10 to 15 awful pitches a week Awful, awful, awful. They're terrible, they make me cringe when I read them.
Speaker 1:And so to see one executed so well, one, I'm sure it surprised you. It was an immediate yes, but it was also oh, by the way, you want to do a podcast swap? Yeah, I booked two time slots, so we're back to back two hours in a row. We're going to record, we're just going to knock this all out. Was that surprising to you when I responded back to your email?
Speaker 2:I know. I think, because I'm so selective and specific, I kind of have a good feeling that people are going to say yes, because I'm not like spamming out stuff. I'm like this is a perfect fit. I know this is going to work and I feel like and plus, I really like know that I'm going to vibe with the person. So I kind of have a feeling of like this seems like a decent person. I just I feel this connection. So you saying yes, maybe it wasn't a surprise, but the fact that it was booked within a few days most of the time.
Speaker 2:The one thing I've found I do a lot of outreach for my show. There's usually a two lead lag. Most of the time I invite people on the show two weeks time from then they book it. That is the most common time. So to see things happen so fast, and also, as you've noticed, I put a lot of preparation into what I'm going to ask. I do research, I create an interview prep. So having this, having to turn all of this around in like a few days, is a lot. I usually send the interview prep book to the guest a week before. In your case it was like the night before because I had to just get everything together, but, um, it's been wonderful. I'm really happy we're here yeah, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Well, and again, it's just like you're a dream guest to have, like, all of that prepped. And like to know, like even as as me a guest on your show, like it was so helpful to have all of that information. I love like a content brief or like you you know a briefing document to let you know here's what you can expect. Like here's a little bit about our show. We call them podcast guidelines around here that we send to our guests and I think it's it's so important because it really does ease a lot of people's like tension of like oh, I have to go do a lot of research about this show and you just told me very blatantly like here's who we are, here's the people that we serve, and this is how you can add value and what we try to stick away from. Like this is what we do and what we don't, and so that was super helpful.
Speaker 1:But again, it was just one of those like and we talked about planning and my audience would be like oh gosh, crystal was out in the wild Talk about planning somewhere, but we talked about like planning your year out and just to tell everybody the behind the scenes, like we're recording this right at the end of October and I'm looking out and into December. I don't do interviews, I just don't do them. And so when I saw this as an opportunity of like, oh, we could do two interviews back to back, we can make them super impactful and, you know, really help both of our audiences and help both of us as creators looking to have more content, that was why I was like I have to jump on this opportunity. So I'm sorry about the extra work that it created for you, but I hope that you know all of this turns out really well Worth it.
Speaker 2:Don't worry, crystal, absolutely worth it.
Speaker 1:But you have so much helpful information to share about podcast guesting right. And I asked you to come on the show to talk about debunking myths about being a podcast guest and what that looks like. So I am curious, just from your own podcast journey, like what does that really look like for you? Like, have you always guested on podcasts? When did you start your own show? Like, just kind of tell us your background in the podcasting space and then we'll go from there yeah, sure.
Speaker 2:So I started podcasting 2018. I was working for a media company here in Medellin, colombia, where I'm based, and they weren't doing anything to do with podcasts and I kind of just got into the space like I was like you know, I really, really enjoy podcasting. I would love it if we could branch off into podcasting. I got a yes from my boss and I started a podcast and within the first few episodes I got very lucky. I got the vice president of McAfee on the show. I also got like a New York Times reporter and I just I had these like really big episodes and they kind of spiraled from there. I ended up producing that show for a while, then another show for the company. I then worked for another company in 2021, so that started in 2018.
Speaker 2:I got into podcasting 2021. I actually became a podcast booking specialist for another company, a podcast booking agency, and I'd already had three years of being a podcast host, receiving pitches, knowing what a good pitch looked like, knowing what a bad pitch looked like, and I kind of just was like okay, now I'm going to try things from the other perspective and I think throughout my whole career working in podcasting, I've always balanced this kind of role of being on both sides of pitching, so I really understand what it takes to send a good pitch and I really know what it feels like to receive a good pitch, and that has helped me immensely. And then, as of January 2024, my wife and I we launched Podwritten together. She comes from the background of being a senior writer at a PR company and we started this business together, and now we help health and wellness businesses get booked on podcasts to spread their message and bring in clients through podcast guesting.
Speaker 1:Okay, I mean, this is so fascinating and I love this part of your journey, you know, because you've had a few different perspectives of like, okay, I'm going to start this thing and, you know, maybe it had this kind of intentions, and then now I feel like you kind of do that. You did the reverse of what so many people do. Some people started as like a passion project and then it leads to something else and it feels like you started it more as like a corporate thing and then then it led to a passion project and helping people that you know that you're serving today. So it's so interesting and I think I mean, just first and foremost, there's a lot of people that have listened to this show and they're just now starting right, whether it's in 2024, 2025, or maybe they got started in 2023. But you and I, we actually got started the same year. I started in 2018.
Speaker 1:What's the thing that you know today, either about guesting or just podcasting in general, that you wish that you would have known then? Maybe it's like the recurring lesson. You're like I had to learn that lesson again. It's the same thing over and over and over again. Do you have one of those that pops into your mind?
Speaker 2:I don't know if I have a lesson, but certainly if I could go back and tell myself a piece of advice is that it gets better. Like you become more articulate, you become smarter. I think when I first started, I put a lot of pressure on myself and a lot of people do to be perfect, show up to an interview and be perfect, deliver everything perfectly. But it's like anything the more repetitions you do, the better you're going to get, and it's worth getting better at. Because, yeah, when you can articulate yourself and deliver your message in a really concise and engaging way, that is potentially one of the most valuable skill sets you will learn for your business yeah, and I think it's one of those things that like bleeds out into other areas of your life too.
Speaker 1:Like I feel like I'm a better listener today than I was in 2018. And my husband can attest to that too. It's like we have better conversations today because I'm like, oh, I know when to pause. And I have this little trick my audience know this. I will sit on my hands sometimes when I'm in an interview and I'm like don't talk, it is not your turn to talk, let the other person talk. I used to interrupt people so bad, and it was this terrible habit.
Speaker 1:And that was one of the lessons I had to learn over and over and over again.
Speaker 1:But, to your point, it's like you know you, once you're here, it's like we started in 2018, here we are in 2024. And then now it's like, oh my gosh, like that was the thing that I needed to learn over and over again. And then now it's a life skill, like we we can't say that about other things in our lives, right, but I feel like podcasting to your point is like that articulation of what you're trying to say and communicate with people is just so powerful. But, yeah, do you have anything else to add to that? Like just just being able to that articulation, like I I don't know, I'm just I'm so curious and fascinated with the people that you work with, right, because you are actively trying to get them to sign up for your service or coach with you or, you know, just invest in what you're doing.
Speaker 1:And that articulation piece, like how is that different versus if you would have done that in 2018? If you would have done that in 2018, like had the same business model of what you're doing today. But back then, like what's is it? The confidence, Is it?
Speaker 2:what is it? I think it is the confidence. I also just think as well. There is this like practice you know your subject more. So, it's like comes with more knowledge, but then you have more confidence because you have more knowledge and then the confidence allows you to deliver it better, and I feel it's like this kind of like overlapping relationship. So I think it's a combination of knowledge and then the confidence that you have the knowledge, that's that's super helpful and super important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. This is so good. I'm just so excited about this conversation. Anytime I can get in conversation with people that are podcasting nerds, it just makes me so happy, so happy, so happy. But I want to talk about being a podcast guest. But before we really dive into that, I want to know and I'm putting you on the spot here so you may not know this, but do you remember, like the worst podcast pitch that you've ever gotten, even if it's not like in detail, like what, like maybe how it made you feel or what was so wrong with it?
Speaker 2:like I'm just so curious to know I think it's just when I don't even know if I should like consider it, because I'm sure everyone gets it.
Speaker 2:But when you just get a pitch and it's just like so far from what you do like you have someone like I think we received a pitch, uh, for someone that wants to sell rave clothes and it's a health and wellness podcast where we talk about health and wellness businesses and podcasting and growing a podcast, and it's like they're trying to pitch about selling clothes for a rave, or it's just when something is so far disconnected, you can't help but feel like it's almost confusing.
Speaker 2:You don't even feel insulted or annoyed, or angry it's just like you're trying to connect the dots in between of like, how did this arrive in my inbox? Um, yeah, so I suppose that's probably the worst pitch if we're talking like an absolute waste of time. But of course, there are other ones where it's like they send a pitch and they there's no links. They tell me all of these things. I had this put here's my website, but the whole pitch is like absent of links. Or if they send a pitch and it's just like 2000 words long and it's like it's any of these sorts of things. There's so many like major errors which made me think like okay, someone actually did intend. This isn't just like a spammy robot sending something out. Someone actually did this. But this isn't just like a spammy robot sending something out. Someone actually did this, but they've done an awful job of this. So I would say those are probably some of the factors that stand out for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, these are the pet peeves. This is the pet peeves list of podcast pitching, because I feel like we all have them and I think that it is. It's the templated ones where you're like, oh, somebody tried really hard, but no, that's not the name of my podcast. Or you misspelled my name or you are almost this close, and then we get to the bottom and you called me Sarah or Susie and that's not my name.
Speaker 1:So, I think that it's those things that just like it's nails on a chalkboard to so many people. But now let's talk about because you have this concept of like how to know if a podcast, like guesting, getting on other shows is the actual right strategy for your business. And I'm really curious about this because in our audience we have it kind of runs the gamut of online entrepreneurs, so it could be someone that is selling digital courses, they're selling services, maybe they're doing like conferences or in-person events. So I'm really curious when you think about podcast guesting and helping people, like how do you know if it's the right strategy for their business or not?
Speaker 2:think that podcast guesting has so many advantages and you can tap into so many niches and there's so much opportunity with it that it's kind of easier to explain the times when podcast guesting isn't a good idea, which I would say is if you have something that's time sensitive, like a launch for example, if you've got a book launch coming up, if you have a retreat coming up and you are very close to it so say you're just a month out that's probably not going to be the best opportunity to use podcast guesting.
Speaker 2:As we spoke earlier in the show, sometimes there's a long delay. Sometimes, like I said, someone will book a call out two weeks in advance and then like it's recorded and it's published and, like you know, a month or a few months might pass before the episode goes live. And if you're like I've got a month until my book comes out, I want to do a podcast tour, it's like it's too late, that moment has passed. You should have like started like seven, eight months ago, ideally, if you want to get all of these podcasts out in time. And it's the same if you've got a retreat or something along those lines. So, because of the nature of podcast guesting being like quite time sensitive, like you need a long, you need to prepare well, like in advance.
Speaker 2:Um, I would say, if something's time sensitive, then maybe just look at putting your money in ads or something else that might be, might be a better option, but podcast guesting, I think the best way to look at it is there's two kind of ways of podcast guesting in my mind. There's podcast guesting in general and then there's like tactical podcast guesting. So I would say podcast guesting in general is great for anyone, regardless of their business size, particularly if they're small, because it's like most things we mentioned there, you get better with practice. So ideally you want to get into the habit of learning how to send a good pitch early on and you want to get through the process of like understanding what the process is like to be on shows, understanding what you need to turn up with. The more you do it, the more familiar you're going to become with the whole process, the more practice you're going to get with pitches and also you're going to articulate yourself in a much better way than if you were to like just. I suppose the more, the more podcasts you go and you learn to articulate yourself better and all of this gives you practice. So I would certainly say there's always a good time to start practicing with podcast pitching and you don't need to be going after big shows. You don't need to be going after the larger shows. That's for when you're tactically pitching. So when you're starting out, you can just pitch smaller shows. You can also use platforms like matchmaker or pod match. Try and strike up those connections and I think that's fantastic because it gets you into the process of understanding how to to do podcast guesting well.
Speaker 2:And then, when you're actually at a stage where your business is ready to to be marketed, when you've got something that's selling, when you know you've got something, you've got happy clients, you're like I just need more clients. You know everything's working, I just need've got happy clients. You're like I just need more clients, you know everything's working, I just need more exposure. That's the missing piece right now. That's when you want to get tactical with your podcast guest booking or podcast guesting, and what that means is understanding your audience. Like who are you going after? Like, who do you want to speak to? Really understanding the niches, what, which podcast am I going to get on, which is going to get me in front of my audience? And then you also want to consider size as well. So you want to understand, like, how big is this show? What is their reach? Because those are two strategies you want to take. When you're just generally podcasting. Sure, as long as you don't have like limited time, I'd say, accept any podcast offer that comes on. Someone pitches you, someone wants to, whatever, just that's fine. But when you're being tactical you want to understand like, okay, is this audience going to become? Are they going to become clients? Are they the kind of people that I want to get in front of or am I just going to waste my time in their time and also, like, what size is this show?
Speaker 2:So the way we assess it here at pod written, we look at apple podcast ratings. So the best way to do that is just check out and make sure you're checking out the the correct region. So if you're just going after, like, american clients, then check to see how many apple podcast ratings a podcast has in the american region. Same if you're going after australian or uk clients, whatever, you can also check global apple podcast ratings a podcast has in the American region. Same if you're going after Australian or UK clients, whatever. You can also check global Apple podcast ratings with some tools. And the best way to understand this is kind of like Amazon, for example, if you were to buy a product on Amazon and it's got 50 ratings and then you look at another product and it's got a thousand, you're more likely to go after the one that's got a thousand, because that just shows more kind of social proof.
Speaker 2:And also these ratings indicate reach as well, because we don't have a transparent way of understanding listenership for podcasts. Really, I mean it's improving, but podcast hosts are the only people that really know how many listeners their show is getting, so that's a good indicator. And we also use listen notes. Listen notes is a website and a tool which indicates where the each podcast is ranked in the world within a percentage. So like my show, for example, at this moment in time is a top 2.5% ranked podcast in listen notes and that means like it's in the top 2.5% of shows, which sounds impressive. But you also got to remember that like there's a lot of like inactive shows out there, so bear that in mind when you're looking at the percentages. Uh, that is a quick overview. Did you have any questions? I know I kind of like went off on one there oh, that's great, this is great.
Speaker 1:I was actually just thinking about, like you saying the like it's, the practice of being a guest, right, like it's so important, like you don't want to get one of these really big shows as your very first podcast guest spot ever, like that. I mean it sounds fancy and it sounds amazing but in reality, like, if you're a host of a podcast, it's very different than being a guest on a podcast. You have to be able to understand that you're not talking to your typical audience and maybe, like I make a lot of jokes on here, I like to have fun with my guests, but that may not work for all audiences unless it's that type of podcast. So you have to really, you know, kind of mold and create your creative message for that audience that's going to resonate with them, but also showcase the things that are really your powerhouse strengths that you can bring to the table. You're bringing the best foot forward and that takes practice. It takes practice to not ramble on someone else's show and then you sign off and you're like did I even give like a call to action? Did I? Did I do this? Like there's there's like a checklist of things that can really help you become a better guest. That hosts will appreciate.
Speaker 1:And I got to tell you if you're in a small niche, other hosts talk about it Like they will talk about good and bad guests. Right, we're not doing it to be malicious, but I've had people that reach out to me and they're like Sam I'm just using you as an example. You've never been an actual example, but they'll be like this Sam guy reached out to me. Here's what he talks about. Have you had him on your show? And I may say, oh yes, like he was an incredible guest, like you have to have him. I highly recommend him. Or it could be like that was a terrible interview. I would never do that again, of course. Again, I'm not talking about you, Sam, in real life.
Speaker 1:But this is what I'm saying, like podcast guests talk too, or podcast hosts talk about guests that they have. So it's just another piece of like. You want to show up, you want to put your best foot forward. But one thing I have to ask, because we've had many people come on the show to talk about pitching and guesting and how important the strategy is. But I'm curious from your perspective, like where do you see a lot of people go wrong whenever they are pitching on their own behalf? Or maybe they hire an agency to do it for them? I mean, I know we talked about the timing piece, but is there any other pieces that you're like? Oh man, this is another pet peeve of mine that I see wrong all the time, and I really wish that people would just know that we could improve this.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think, when it comes to pitching themselves, certainly some people get caught up in the idea of like speaking about like me, or I've done this, I've done that.
Speaker 2:I've produced this many books I've done. They kind of like confuse a pitch with their bio and the reality is most hosts aren't going to be too interested in that. Yes, they want the social proof of the credibility that you're someone that has achieved things, but more than anything, they want to know what value you're going to bring onto the show. They want to know how you're going to deliver information in a way that they haven't received it before from a different guest. They want to see that you've done the research that you like. Oh, I saw you had this guest on. You made some great points here.
Speaker 2:Uh, I would love to take this conversation further by discussing this, this and this, or I noticed you didn't touch on this. Um, I can add value by doing this. And there's, like you've got to add bullets. Like I'm going to share a piece of content with you, crystal, which you can add in the show notes, and it's a pitch template that your listeners can use and they can take this and they can send pitches and you're gonna see exactly what I mean. Like you got to have those bullets there that really deliver the value and keep it short as well. Like less is better, the more that you the. The value that you can like convey in the shortest way possible is like going to make for the best pitch. So I would definitely say that make sure that you have links. If you've been on other shows before, as well, mention that because, like you said, there's this sense of social proof that they no one really wants to have a podcast guest on and it's their first podcast yes like guest experience.
Speaker 2:No one wants that. So I usually like to sign off for our clients like, by the way, you can check, uh, this person out on top one percent rank podcasts like x, y and z, and that immediately delivers social credibility. It gives them the opportunity to go check out shows they've been on and, um, yeah, it shows that they're like this isn't their first time. They've really experienced these hosts, really like them. These top 1% hosts had them on. You're going to want to have them on as well. So that, briefly, is uh, I'd say what. What comes to mind for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and actually while you were talking, I was like I have to ask Sam, can I just share the email that you sent to me?
Speaker 1:Because, my audience. Like I was like, oh my gosh, we just have to put that. So we're watching, listening to this we're going to have a link to for you to go look at it, cause I want you to go see exactly what Sam did. Because he did exactly what he's saying, like he's practicing what he preaches. Because immediately I was like, okay, check, yes, that's good. Yes, yeah, okay, done. Like I'm hitting reply immediately and I'm like, oh, I just booked a book, that time slot, because that's exactly what you did.
Speaker 1:And it is those markers that I like I said I get so many pitches and most of them I'm like skim, you know, skimming through and I'm like, oh no, delete, delete, delete. But you had something in there and, um, I can't think of specifically what it is and I'm like I don't want to pull. I want to pull up the email, but I'm not going to pull up. We're going to put it in the show notes, we're going to have that connection made there. But those bullet points of the value that you can bring are so crucial because, again, I could tell just from an email.
Speaker 1:I didn't go and immediately look at all of Sam's information, I didn't go listen to his podcast. I didn't go look at his website. I heard the value that he could bring to this podcast immediately in his message and was like done, it wasn't all about Sam and how incredible he is. It was like here's the value that we can bring to your show. So again, kudos to writing an incredible pitch. But I just think that having that as an example of what you can do really well is just it's awesome. Yeah, it was so great, such a great, thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm flushing but it is I love to point these out because I get so many bad ones, and I actually have a friend of mine who she started. Uh, her emails are called the flop files, like it's, and Angie Trueblood Shout out.
Speaker 2:Like she's over at.
Speaker 1:Podswap, yeah, like she is just so incredible. Podwise, that's what her, that's what her business is called, and I remember she first started these pod flop emails and I was like this is genius. Let me know and I will dig into my archives and send them over.
Speaker 1:And she was like girl, don't play, don't play, just send them my way. I went to hear all of them because it happens. So because, again, here's a great example. Like we talk, we talk about these bad pitches that we get in, these bad experiences. But I digress, I'm going to, I'm going to stop talking about all the bad pitches.
Speaker 1:So if we are thinking about someone is listening to this and when it's airing we're going into a brand new year and they are thinking, okay, you know, sam said I need to be strategic about the timing and I need to think about, you know, the planning and my promotions and everything, how would you recommend? If someone says, okay, I know I'm launching something mid-year or the fall of next year, so they want to have that big strategic push, how much effort and energy is really put into? Like, let's say, they come work with you, right, they're like Sam, fantastic episode on Crystal's podcast. Like I want to work with you. What does that look like between the timeframe of just planning and researching and getting strategic to that actual launch of whatever the thing is? Can you kind of just walk through what that would look like?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we would usually recommend working backwards from like seven to eight months, because what we want to do is we want to kind of get you booked on pitches, understand what pitches are working well, build up the relationships with the hosts, and one thing which people don't always consider is that you can often guest on shows multiple times.
Speaker 2:So the first time that you guest on a show. It might just be the first time, and sometimes I've had this before, where I've worked with a client and they weren't launching their book until the following year. But you know what? They spent that year getting on podcasts and when their book came out, they were. We did a re. Uh, we reached out to all the hosts that had them on. We're like, hey, she's got this book coming out, would you like to have her on again? And most of them were like, yeah, let's have her back on so it's like you don't.
Speaker 2:The sooner you get started the better. There's no sense of like oh, this is too early for the book launch, this is too early for my retreat. It's like, the sooner you decide like I'm gonna go work with sam or whatever agency that you want to work with, that's that's the best time. So, as soon as you know about your launch, really start thinking ahead of time and, um, yeah, get active and bear in mind that you can always guest on a show again. Um, other than that, I, yeah, just like.
Speaker 2:I also think like, consider your time as well, because a lot of times, people don't understand that podcast pitching takes up a lot of time to do it. Well, and I think that's why we see so many crap pitches out there. Yeah, um, because people just don't do the research. They don't listen to the show, they don't do a deep dive into the host and their, their their youtube channel, their instagram, their tiktok, whatever it is. They don't listen to the show, they don't do a deep dive into the host and their YouTube channel, their Instagram, their TikTok, whatever it is. They don't really understand who they've had on before and how it relates to their message. It takes a lot of work and it's understandable if you don't have the time to do it. Well, the only thing that I would say is start off small, and that's fine. Just like, send a pitch, send a couple pitches, send two or three pitches a week, and that's absolutely fine. That's a great place to start. But also understand, if you're going to start off small, it's going to take longer, because obviously, if you're just sending a couple of pitches a week, that's going to take longer to get to the results that you want. So I think you really need to decide about, like, how much time do I have to to this? And then build up a workflow, obviously, and that allows you to get into the habit of finding podcasts, analyzing them, writing the pitch, doing the outreach, doing the follow-up and then, of course, if you get booked on the show, then you have to do the research of like preparing and understanding what their audience is looking for. How can I tailor my message to this specific audience? What am I going to speak to to? So it does take time.
Speaker 2:Um, that's why we like launched our business, because the goal with pod written my wife and I is that our clients just show up for the interviews. We book them on. So we do everything. We find the podcast, we write the pitches, we do the outreach, we create interview prep, we do interview coaching, we repurpose their interviews, we're into blogs and audio clips. So we just handle the whole thing for them. And if you have the money but you don't have the time, then there are there's pod written and other agencies like ours. If you don't have the money but you got the time, then definitely get into it yourself. Like I said, I'm going to share a pitch template which you can find in the show notes, crystal share and, um, yeah, just take the time to understand how this process works and then just get out there and do it. But the earlier you get started, the better. Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for anybody that's a health and wellness professional like, you need to go talk to Sam and this agency. The reason why I say that is because there is so much power in working with an agency, because it's not like you're walking in the door and they're like oh, we can start our business. Who are the podcasts? No, no, no. I receive pitches from very. There's probably four agencies that I've worked with previously that pitch me clients. As soon as their emails hit my inbox, I'm like what do they have for me now? Because every time, they routinely send me incredible guests that are easy to work with, they're well prepared and I know my job as the host is going to be so stinking easy, and so that will happen.
Speaker 1:Whenever people develop other hosts and there's big shows, small shows, whatever size shows they develop these relationships with agencies and they're like anytime Sam sends me something in the future, I'm gonna be like yeah, like that's an easy yes, and so that's just something else to consider.
Speaker 1:So, as a guest, right, that's considering like, maybe you're a host of a show, maybe you don't even have content of your own right now, but you're thinking about guesting to get your digital course or whatever you're creating in 2025 out, please reach out to Sam, because I think that there's so much power in the networking and the relationships that they are creating. So you don't have to, but you can benefit from all of their hard work, because then you're gonna have this relationship with the host. But just know on the back end that anytime they receive something from Sam, they're probably like, yeah, like this is an immediate yes, it's a lot easier. So I just wanted to make that plug, for working with agencies really do have a power as a host. I so appreciate all the work and all the things that you do, because you deliver guests on a silver platter and I'm like, yep, I will take that one. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Like that is one of the benefits of working with an agency, especially with an agency that works in a niche like ours, because we have like that network already. And you know what? We took on a client the other week and within one week we got them five bookings and like with like half of those bookings were from people we knew and they just immediately said yes because they trust us. Same with another client we worked with less than two months we got 11 bookings and like still again, half of them were like because we send them a pitch and immediately they just get picked up. So I mean, yeah, you, you're essentially like paying to not only like outsource the work but also to have access to a network that you otherwise wouldn't have.
Speaker 1:Yes, or it could take years to develop that network, you know, or it could take, you know, having the right like not conversation, but just having that right introduction Like that's how I think of agencies is like they are the person that's at the party. That's like hey, you know, Crystal, I think you and Sam should really meet, because you would hit it off. Here's how you have things in common and I just think y'all could have a great conversation. Okay, go. And then here goes Sam. He's introducing other people at a party. Like that's really how I think about it, instead of because people, I get pushed back a lot of the times where people are like I don't have the money to invest in this right now, but then I see them running ads that are tanking and they're wasting all this money and they're just like I don't understand.
Speaker 1:This was my marketing strategy and I'm like it's not a great strategy for what you're trying to do, Because what I have found is the relationships that I form with potential clients or members of our community on podcasts. They hear me on another show and then they come over to this show and they're like I'm just here to see if Crystal was as wacky and crazy on her own podcast as she is on others. No, I, typically I'm more reserved on other people's shows. Okay, I give you all the real goods here, but I think that it's those relationships that you can deepen so much more than spending ads. You know ad advertising revenue for people that could potentially listen and then click away or listen to two seconds and then never come back. So I think that that deepening of that relationship is just so important and I'm sure you feel the same way yeah, and who represents you matters as well.
Speaker 2:Like you said, like you get a crap pitch, they're going to associate your name with a crap pitch that someone else has sent on your behalf so it's, yeah, it's really important yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, I want to know is are there any stories that you have to share about clients that got onto like a really big show, like this is your moment.
Speaker 1:I want you to do some bragging for a second Sam, and like tell us about like someone that just like, oh my gosh, like we pitched this one show and we had no idea this was gonna happen. Or maybe, like you said, like 11 bookings, like, as soon as you start working with someone, like that's really impressive to be able to deliver those kinds of results. Because, like you said, like podcasters, we're pretty rigid in our schedules. We're like, oh, you can get on here, but you got to wait six months in order for that episode to air. So this is your chance.
Speaker 1:We want to hear your success stories, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'd love to. So I think a real delight for me was recently booking one of my clients. She's a fashion movement coach, anna ray. She was booked on a show called well with ariel loray and it's a really big show. Um, it is a top 0.05 percent ranked podcast. It's got about four and a half thousand apple podcast ratings globally and it was bizarre because I actually pitched another show within dear media. So this network that she uh belongs or she is a part of, and it was a smaller show. It's actually the show by taylor lautner and taylor lautner or taylor I don't know the, the actor, uh, who's in the twilight films.
Speaker 2:I pitched their show and it's a much smaller show, maybe they got like a thousand ratings and I pitched her to be on there and, um, they actually responded saying like, hey, uh, we don't, we don't, we can't take her on this show right now, but we can have her on, well, with ariel marie and I was like that's like four times the size of the show I pitched.
Speaker 2:So she flew out to la and she did the interview there and, uh, it went really well. Uh, that's one example that um has stood out to me recently and that was uh last month that that happened, um, and and that was really fantastic and also, like, as funny as it sounds, like, sometimes it's nice to get people booked on shows which are super niche or smaller or spark the connections, because there's sometimes when, like you spark a you, you set someone up on a show and they really hit it off with the host and you know what next thing, they're friends.
Speaker 2:Next thing, like one of my clients is like she's now like, uh, one of the speakers in like their kind of event or their private coaching course and it's. It's the thing is we spark these interactions and it's up to the host and our client to kind of then take it further, like we give them the opportunity to then foster this relationship with the host, and that can lead into so many things like speaking gigs, retreats and other kinds of opportunities. So it's our job to make the connection and then from there the opportunities of what our client chooses to do it's like endless. So that's also really inspiring as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love hearing about you know the one like going flying to LA to be on a podcast, like there's people that are listening or like, oh my gosh, that sounds incredible to being invited to in person. Like are you seeing that happening a lot more, or is like the in-person interviews like really picking up, or is it typically still a lot of virtual bookings that you're seeing?
Speaker 2:So I think people are flexible, people understand that by hosting just in-person interviews they are potentially cutting out a lot of good guests, because not all guests can like physically make it there so with this, the show that I mentioned.
Speaker 2:They are pivoting away from being like an audio only podcast and very much in a studio kind of podcast. So for them it was necessary, uh, but no, most of the time people are flexible, but certainly they do like it. Um, when you, when you're close to someone, like I, have a client tomorrow who's gonna, who has a booking, she's in boulder, colorado, and the host is there and they've decided like, oh, that that would be a good opportunity to do it in person so when it lines up it's fantastic and we always keep that in mind because obviously we do deep research into the show, so we know where the hosts of everyone we're pitching is based more or less.
Speaker 2:So we can always suggest that, but no, I would say that a lot of time. It's flexible because otherwise if you don't offer that virtual kind of opportunity, then you're going to miss out on the potential of having some great guests that just physically can't make it to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I love the idea because this is always how my marketing brain is working. So I want everybody to listen. You know, when you're you have the opportunity to be a guest on these big shows and they are doing in person and you're like, yeah, but that's that feels really expensive. You know, fly to LA and do this. It is worth it to have that authority on your website, on future pitches and other places, like I think that that's often underestimated in like getting on one of these really big shows and people not leveraging that for a long time. They're like, oh, it's one thing, no, no, no, it's not just one thing, it's not this one appearance. Like if you're on Good Morning America, like you need to keep talking about.
Speaker 1:I was on Good Morning America, I was a New York Times bestselling author. It's like there's a reason why people keep those things in their titles or in, you know, their marketing material because it matters. It matters in that authority that you're building in other people's minds, or that opportunity to put your best foot forward and have this kind of like highlight, you know, spotlight moment on this one piece of your journey, and so I just wanted to point that out. There is, like. I do think that the in-person stuff is so cool. Having done a few in-person interviews in the last year, I think that there's so much power to being in a physical space with someone too, that you can't replicate in a virtual space. So if you get that opportunity, lean into it like, lean into that discomfort, because it can really pay off in really cool ways.
Speaker 2:But yeah, absolutely, but yeah well.
Speaker 1:Sam. I mean, we are going to wrap up on this, so I'm actually going to give you some rapid fire questions that I did not prompt you with earlier.
Speaker 2:So I hope you're okay with that. I'm ready for that. I'm ready for that. Let's go.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right. Well, my first one is what piece of advice would you give to a brand new podcaster or content creator?
Speaker 2:I would just say it gets better, things get easier, keep going. And also, a lot of the time we get excited and thinking, oh, I've just released my podcast, I've just launched this. We think the beginning is like the big moment. I've heard some people say that sometimes the soft launch is better. Maybe don't even go crazy and launch your like, tell everyone, just get some reps in first. I'm not sure if I fully agree with that advice, but I understand the the mentality of thinking like and accepting the first 10, 20, however many episodes or like 10 blogs. Whatever content you're creating, the first like batch of it is always going to be a bit maybe not your best work, but it's going to get better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's okay. I tell people you can call it garbage and say that you'll maybe you'll delete it in the future, but it's okay, cause it does get better it does get better. Okay, my next piece, or my next question, is what is the dream podcast that you would love to be on and who is your dream podcast guest?
Speaker 2:um, so there's a few, so I don't know, um, I suppose one of the people that I've there's a couple of answers to this there's like a professional and a personal sort of one.
Speaker 2:So a personal one I was, I've always been inspired by Trevor Noah. I've always enjoyed him because I he's someone that was very popular in the UK coming up through UK comedy and then I saw him go onto the daily show and I have to say I've have always been so impressed by his abilities to interview. I think of all the people I've seen interview, so impressed by his ability to interview. I think of all the people I've seen interview, I'm impressed by him the most. So to be able to be interviewed by him, I think that would be a personal achievement because I think, yeah, for me, in my opinion, he's the greatest like presenter interviewer that I've observed. And then, maybe professionally, one of my favorite podcasts is Creator Science by Jay Klaus. I think he does some really good work on content creation and, yeah, he has some really interesting guests on. I think that would be a real achievement professionally to chat with him on that show.
Speaker 1:Oh, these are great. These are great suggestions. Y'all go check those out. If you haven't listened to Trevor's podcast or Jay's, absolutely go check those out. Okay, and then my last question is do you consider yourself a perfectionist?
Speaker 2:um, that's kind of hard, I would say no. But so I've, rather than being a perfectionist, I try and focus on attention to detail, I suppose because I think, perfectionist, you can never actually finish like everything can always be improved. So rather I try and drop the mentality of this needs to be perfect and I instead pick up the mentality of like this needs to be high quality, like this, like there can't be mistakes in this, and I try and and, rather than try.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that makes sense and I can't really articulate it in a better way than that, but knowing that, like you can't necessarily achieve perfection allows me to just like drop it and instead think as long as there's no spelling errors in this, as long as it doesn't look cheap, as long as, like, I can walk away from this work and be like you know what this is good quality, and next time I put something out, I'll just try and improve the quality oh yeah, this is so good and I think that that's such great advice and this was so much fun, sam, like having these conversations and just bringing so much like to light about podcast guesting and being a host and guest on a podcast Like it is one in the same but also requires very different skill sets, and I think that you really brought so much to the conversation today about like just showing up and like bringing your best self to the conversation in a way that articulates, like, what you're trying to do, but also that strategy piece from behind the scenes of like well, if you're trying to do something, don't try to do it two weeks before it's going to happen, because it's probably not going to happen the way you think it's going to work out.
Speaker 1:So yeah, tell everybody where they can learn more about you and the awesome things that you're doing over at Podwritten.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much. So podwrittencom is the best place to go. Podwrittencom super simple. We've got lots of resources there. You'll find Mike's to Millions, my blog, not my blog, my podcast. Crystal was recently a guest and, yeah, she offers some great insights. So definitely check out that episode once it's live, if it's not ready and podwrittencom. We also have blogs on there as well, related to like content creation, mostly around podcast guesting, podcasting and some related to blogging as well, but definitely podwrittencom is the best place to go. I'm also going to share a free resource that you can use and it's like a guide to getting yourself booked on podcasts in four weeks and it comes with a pitch template. I'm going to share that with Crystal and she could put that in the show notes and, yeah, hopefully you're going to get yourself booked on lots of shows.
Speaker 1:Yes, we love a template around here. We love that being able to like follow something step-by-step, love that being able to like follow something step by step. So, yes, we will have a link to everything in the show notes. But again, thank you so much, sam, for being on the show today. This was so much fun.
Speaker 2:Hey, my pleasure. Thank you for having me here, Crystal.
Speaker 1:So it was really funny right before I started recording kind of the intro and the outro for this episode, I was like, oh my gosh, I have to remember to include Sam's pitch, because I know that we talked about it in this episode and so I already screen grabbed it, like I took a screenshot of exactly what he pitched for being on the Profit Podcast and I'm putting it in the show notes. So I want you to go check it out, because I talked about how many pitches I get, how many of them end up in the trash or they end up in spam or I'm just like I don't even open them because it's so so bad. Right, it starts off so bad, and I'm sure that you get these too, but I want you to see what it's like when it goes really well, because I don't think we talk about these often enough. So I want you to go take a peek at what I believe is a really good pitch and what, like I said, got Sam an immediate yes and right. So it wasn't just a yes, it was a yes and let's collaborate. Yes, and let's do things in the future together. Yes, and how can I help you in your business? So I want you to find more of those collaborations. So go check out his pitch. It's going to be in the show notes. You're going to find a link to be in the show notes. You're going to find a link to it in the episode description of today's episode.
Speaker 1:But what a fantastic conversation. Go check out Podwritten. Go check out his agency. I know that their niche may not be for everyone that's listening to today's episode, but I want you to go check out the cool stuff that they're doing and go listen to his podcast and see. You know, listen to our conversation. I don't know if it's going to be live when we're.
Speaker 1:You know this episode goes live, but I really want you to go check it out because it was a really fun. I guess it's like a journey, right, like it's a really fun place for us to share our journeys. You know these things we call podcasts, but it's just storytelling and connections, and it means so much to me. It's why I'm still here, showing up since 2018. And it's why I hope that you can find that peace that allows you to be consistent and show up and truly love the content that you're creating. So go check out Sam's pitch, go check out Podwritten and learn more about his agency and what him and his wife are doing together. But that's all I have for you today. So make sure you are following or subscribed wherever you are listening and, as always, remember, keep it up. We all have to start somewhere. You.
