The Proffitt Podcast
Are you thinking about starting a podcast? Launching a YouTube channel? Repurposing your old blog content into something fresh? Hi, I'm Krystal - host of "The Proffitt Podcast." And I'm happy to say you've come to the right place!
Business owners and content creators dream of building a platform where they can connect deeply with their audience, and marketing feels easy. But I also know what it's like to feel confused and overwhelmed.
Join us weekly as we strip down those processes and remove all the overwhelm with new tips, simple strategies, and great conversations with creators like you. Tune in to hear how I help creators start, launch, and market their content confidently. The motto here is, "We all have to start somewhere."
The Proffitt Podcast
Why You Need a Podcast Website and How to Create One Easily
Dive into the world of podcasting with our special guest, Dave Jackson, a pioneering figure in the industry with an incredible journey that started back in 2005. In this episode, we explore why every podcaster should have a dedicated website. Dave shares valuable insights on the importance of discoverability and how a website amplifies your podcast's potential to reach broader audiences.
As we chat about common pitfalls that podcasters encounter when setting up their sites, we also touch on the significance of audience engagement through email lists and feedback surveys. Whether you’re a novice looking for guidance or a seasoned podcaster seeking ways to enhance your content, you'll discover practical tips to elevate your podcasting game and strengthen your connection with your listeners.
With actionable advice and a sprinkle of humor, this episode will inspire you to launch your podcasts and build a robust online presence that reflects your unique voice. Want to unlock the secrets of podcasting success? Join us and take the first step toward creating an incredible platform for your content! Don't forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review!
Check out Podpage to get started today: krystalproffitt.com/podpage
*Affiliate link
Click the "Send Krystal a Text Message" link above to send us your questions, comments, and feedback on the show! (Pssst...we'll do giveaways in upcoming episodes so make sure you leave your name & podcast title.)
Today's episode was a really fun interview for me. I mean, don't get me wrong, I have so much fun with all the folks that we interview here on the podcast. But this one was extra special because I met today's guest in person for the first time in 2020 at a conference, and this was like February 2020. So it was before all the things that happened in 2020 went down, and it was really cool because it was one of my first. It was actually my first speaking gig we'll call it as a podcast coach and someone stepping into this space and it was really cool to meet him because he kind of is a big deal in podcasting. So Dave Jackson is a pioneering figure in the podcast industry and he started in 2005. So here we are, 20 years later and Dave has such a cool story. With a background in education and over two decades of experience as a technical trainer, dave founded the School of Podcasting to help others in launching and enhancing their podcast. So throughout his career, he's created more than 20 podcasts, contributing to over 3,000 episodes, with a cumulative download content exceeding 3 million. Pretty cool, right, like he knows his stuff. And actually in 2018, dave was inducted into the Academy of Podcasters Hall of Fame, recognizing his significant contributions to the field. Then, in August 2024, he transitioned from his role at Libsyn to join Podpage, which we've talked about. Podpage in this episode.
Speaker 1:Today, we're going to extensively talk about why it's important to have a website for your podcast. So if you've been debating like, which tool should I use or what does that look like, we get into all the details on what that looks like and why it's still so important to have a website for your content. But I won't make you wait any longer. Here's my chat with Dave Jackson. Let's get right to it. Welcome to the Profit Podcast, where we teach you how to start, launch and market your content with confidence. I'm your host, crystal Profit, and I'm so excited that you're here. Thanks for hanging out with me today, because if you've been trying to figure out the world of content creation, this is the show that will help be your time-saving shortcut. So let's get right to it, shall we All right? Prophet Podcast listeners, we have an extra special guest on the show today. So welcome, Dave, so happy to have you.
Speaker 2:Crystal, happy to always connect here and nerd out on podcasting and all things internet. Looking forward to this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is going to be really fun. We were just talking before we started recording about just kind of the different journeys that you've had and the different ups and downs and of the different journeys that you've had and the different ups and downs and lefts and rights that you've had in your podcast journey. But if someone's brand new to you, then can you tell them a little bit about your journey as a podcaster and the things that you've done in the podcast space?
Speaker 2:Sure, I've been podcasting since 2005. Had a friend of mine come back from a conference and he said hey, you know how you missed the MySpace boat, which again kind of ages me here. He's like I've just seen the next thing. It's going to be podcasting. And I Googled it and there was one and a half pages. I'm like how do you spell that? Again, you know so I've been doing it since 2005. That's when I launched the School of Podcasting. Along the years, because of my podcast, I worked for Libsyn for eight years and was the head of podcast education over there, and then last year nothing wrong with Libsyn, this was just a better fit for me I moved over to Podpage, but it's been a fun time. We go back to the days of hand-coding your feed. I have a piece of equipment in my closet that I think I paid 800 bucks for and I could get the same thing now for 150 bucks and it's like so it's fun watching all the tools and everything come into podcasting, just to make it easier and easier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I'm just blown away from whenever I started in 2018. And I remember I recorded those first episodes on Skype and I know people that are listening they're like wait, what? Like? It's like, yeah, but you have to. Everybody remember, like before 2020, zoom wasn't widely, you know, used in all the spaces and people felt super comfortable with it, so we had to get creative. I mean, I was doing like Skype and doing like multiple other devices. It's like, okay, you record on your end, I'm going to record on mine, just because it wasn't reliable.
Speaker 2:So one of my first interviews I got a suction cup that stuck to your phone and it had a cable run out of it and I think I put it into my computer, maybe even to a cassette, and I got that from Radio Shack. So neither Radio Shack or the suction cup recorder are around anymore.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. Yeah, I mean I think that we've seen so many different things and, like I mean I know we sound like the people that have been around forever but it's so true, it's like people in 2025 have no idea how easy they have it to start, like you could do everything from your phone if you wanted to.
Speaker 1:You could do everything for under $100 to get started very easily, from equipment to software to everything. So I feel like, you know, it's just a really fun time and when I think about you know, I was telling Dave before we started recording I was like my audience is a. It's the perfect blend of beginners and those seasoned podcasters, and we talked about you moving over to PodPage and I wanted to specifically talk about why podcast websites. This is the thing I've been trying to beat into everybody's head. I'm like you have to have a website for your podcast and they're like, yeah, but I have this or I have that. So can you just tell us a little bit about, I guess, your philosophy on having a podcast website, why it's important and all the things?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I worked at Libsyn for eight years and part of that was tech support and I'm here to tell you at least once a month, if not two or three, somebody would send in a ticket. Hey, I just got notified that my podcast is now on Apple, but yet when I go over and search for it it doesn't show up. I'm like, what's the name of your show? And they'd be like, okay, and I would type it in the exact name. I'm like is there any kind of funny spelling here? And it just wouldn't show up. I remember there was one. It was something like home fixer-upper helper, something like that Typed in the exact same nothing. And then and sometimes this is in Spotify as well, it's not just an Apple thing and then I typed in his name, because that's what he had for the author, which is what you should do Type in his name. He came right up. But if you said, oh, I'm the such and such podcast and people searched, it just doesn't show up. I mean, Libsyn's podcast is called the Feed and if you don't type in the feed Libsyn, it's not going to show up. And so when I have kind of like one of those, one big tear comes out of my right eye. When I hear somebody say you know, find me wherever you find your podcast, I'm in the car screaming no, don't say that, it's much better. One of the things you can do with pod page is you go get your link to Apple and Spotify at least I might add a few more, but at least those two and you put them in a pod page and it automatically makes a slash follow. So if it's, you know, whatever mywebsitecom slash follow number one. I've reinforced my brand, I've beat that into their head again, and now they can go over and whatever app they want to listen to, it's one click away. Whatever app they want to listen to, it's one click away. And so I mean, that's just one example Going back to the early days of the internet, hence the gray hair.
Speaker 2:But there was a big website called mp3.com and I'm a musician and there were musicians that were making a living selling their music on mp3.com and they'd be like, oh, just go to mp3.com, slash Dave, and that's all they said. They had business cards with mp3.com, slash Dave, and then people started uploading stuff that they didn't know and they were sued and sold, and sued and sold. And mp3.com I don't know what's there now, but basically, and none of these people had their own website and so it went away and that kind of just happened. Now with TikTok you had all these people hey, my TikTok is my main thing, but you're building your house on rented land. You don't really own that. And when that went away, if you didn't have a website or a newsletter or something your audience is like, have fun finding Dave Jackson, there are 8 billion of us, right? I have a really common name. So by having a website, you know it can help One of my clients.
Speaker 2:Her name is Zita Christian. She does a show called my Spouse has Dementia and she called me up the one day and said hey, I know you work at Podpage. Can you walk me through setting this up, because she'll tell you she's over 70, right, so she's, she's not. You know she's, she's some. But the thing I love about Zita, she is not afraid of technology. She just says it might take me a little longer and we had her set up in 10 minutes.
Speaker 2:It's. It's one of the things where that's the marketing thing and you go. Well, you can set your website up in 10 minutes. No, you can seriously set your website up in 10 minutes. And she's like oh, I can do that. And I'm like okay, well, do you have an email list? Oh yeah, I use whatever Aweber, mailchimp or whatever. I'm like oh so log in. Okay, copy that little bit of code there. Okay, go into pod page and now paste it. Okay, cool, look, your newsletter's right there on your website. Oh well, that was easy. And then, if you're using Patreon or Supercast or PayPal or Buy Me a Coffee, it's just what we do is we make websites great looking websites that you don't have to shoehorn a podcast into. Like if you go to Wix or Squarespace, it's like here's a template for a gym, here's a template for a church.
Speaker 2:And you're like yeah, I'm a podcast, and so we have all these templates made for podcasts and then we just integrate with everything. So if you're like, yeah, I'm a podcast and so we have all these templates made for podcasts and then we just integrate with everything, so if you're on Buzzsprout or Captivate or whoever, we bring your player over. If you're using a newsletter, we'll bring that over. We can import your videos from YouTube. It just makes it easy, because, I mean, the thing we love to do is make content. We don't want to sit there and go, oh, every time I log into WordPress it's like oh, look, I have 13 plugins that need updated and 5,000 messages from spam, and you know. And then you update it and you're praying, you don't get the. You know the white screen of death. I don't know if you've ever seen that there's nothing worse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think that you're really talking to my audience right now because they have been sold so many times, like it'll take 10 minutes and then they're like well, I was on tech support all day or I had to purchase, like I got started on WordPress but then I realized like oh, my host is a totally separate platform, so I have to get on with my host and then talk to WordPress. Like it's just, it's so many kind of Frankenstein pieces of tech that are put together and they get really overwhelmed or they just kind of shut down.
Speaker 1:They're like no, I'll just use what you know, I have through Buzzsprout and I, like you know, buzzsprout has built this beautiful website. But to your point.
Speaker 1:It's like you can't do all the other integrations, Like I can't connect. I use kit for my email service provider, so it's like I can't natively collect those, or I can't host, you know, my web, my YouTube, on there. So I love that you talk about all the different features, but I think for someone that's still saying, but Dave, it really can't be that simple. I would love for you just to kind of give another example of if someone has just started their podcast let's say they're launching in the next month and they're really excited what advice would you give to someone who is just getting started? Do you tell people well, you should also launch your podcast and your website at the same time. Or is your advice to do let's get your podcast going and then we'll focus on your website? I'm just curious how easy it is to kind of have these two going at the same time or separately.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I usually say get a trailer of some sort, and it could simply be like hey, this is going to be the future home of the you know, dave Jackson Power Hour. Check it out at DaveJacksonPowerHourcom. And that's a fake website. I'm just making this up. But you could throw that there, because you need one episode live to go into Apple and Spotify and all these other places and you could just have that on your website and then it's there and then you know, now it's. I mean, you can make a website without a podcast on pod page, but it's just so much easier when you have a podcast going already and so you could set that up and then, you know, again, have a newsletter. It's like, hey, be one of the first to know when this goes live, which is what I did with one of my last shows. And then I had a fair number of people sign up for that and, as I was getting ready to launch, I'm like, hey, here's the first episode. This isn't really live yet, but now I've got my focus group and I can email them and go hey, you know, give me feedback on this, good and bad, either one. I'm making this show for you and I want it to resonate with you. So, if you get a chance, listen to this.
Speaker 2:And I just threw in a Dropbox and people download. Oh, that's really good. What's are you going to do this? Oh, I hadn't thought of that. I guess it will now, and so, yeah, it's good to have that. And then the bonus of that is it just starts you. It gives Google a chance to start finding you sooner, and so it doesn't have to be you know this big, you know amazing website. It just has to be something there for people to find. And then the other one is when you do launch and it's there, then you're already set for people to start sharing it and linking back to it and things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. What do you see are like the biggest mistakes that people do make, though? Like whenever they're setting up a website, or they're like, oh you know, I keep, I keep sending people here, but I just I don't know, like maybe they're not great at copywriting or they focus so much on just like kind of making it pretty, but it's not really something that you know. It's like I don't get a lot of traffic. People always ask me of course that's like the number one. It's like okay, I set this thing up, but my mom and I are the only people that go there, so can you kind of speak to that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's well number one. It's super easy to take Google Analytics, which is free, and put it in a pod page so you can start tracking how much traffic am I getting where it's coming, in true Google fashion. You kind of get to know what your visitor had for lunch two weeks ago. I mean, it really gives you a ton of information on that. So that's an easy thing in terms of just seeing who's coming here. The other one is, I think, again just getting feedback.
Speaker 2:I have seen somebody because we have a Facebook group and I'm like, hey, put a link to your pod page. And sometimes I'm like I'm going to put money down that they're colorblind because brown text on a green background. I'm like not quite sure that's going to work, that kind of thing. But the other one is, and it's like when I make show notes. So if I'm using Captivate and I put in my kind of summary at the beginning, here's what this show is about, here's the links that I might have talked about and I might have. Captivate has that cool AI tool. It gives you your takeaways. I'm like, yeah, let's use those, but it's, you know, a paragraph and a half. When it gets to pod page, I can now go into that and like, oh, we're in the land of Google now and I can add a few more paragraphs, because Google loves good words and the key there is good words, and especially if I can spell out a story or something that maybe I put in there, because, yes, google loves good words, but right now everybody and their brother's like, hey, chat, gpt, give me 3,000 words on this, and if you can lean into the fact that you're a person and your personal experience with something, that's going to make you stand out.
Speaker 2:But going back to Zeta, she was just featured in US News and World Report because they were doing a thing on surviving the holidays when you're grieving because she unfortunately lost her spouse. And how did they find her? Her website, and one of the things they found was her transcript, which you can put in the pod page, and so I always kind of say they got to find you first before they hear you or see you or whatever it is. And so it's just, I've always explained that your website should be like your, that's, your home base, and then think of it like the sun, and then you know your Instagram, your blue sky, your Twitter, your LinkedIn, your Instagram, all that stuff. They're little planets, that kind of float around that occasionally come into really popularity.
Speaker 2:And then there were things like I don't know Clubhouse right, remember when that was the everybody and their brother was on Clubhouse until they weren't? And so you don't want to put all your eggs in a basket that you don't own. And when you have your domain, even if you're not using PodPage, you can point that at whatever. So I've had things that I had a domain and I pointed it at a product that was basically an affiliate link for something on Amazon, but it just made it easy for people to buy and then that product just ceased to happen. I'm like, well, what if somebody is looking for this? And I just pointed at something else. So when you have your website, when you have your domain, you're really in control of what's going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean between us, I don't even know how many podcast events that we've been to. But the number one question, or the number one pain point, is discoverability. And you did, you just hit on like that can solve so many. We're not saying you're going to get millions of website views tomorrow, but at the same time you are opening up the opportunity to pop up in Google, pop up in these other searches that otherwise you may not get that data scraped on just a podcast platform. So it absolutely can help with discoverability.
Speaker 1:But, to your point. I think it just makes it so much easier to say your domain, that's it. You don't have to remember all these weird numbers and letters to like whatever your host is using, or if it's Apple or Spotify, like whatever. And you know, I don't know about you, but I've rebranded my podcast a few times actually and my Apple ID is still my very original show. So if you're sharing that, like over time, like it still says the rookie life, I'm like I haven't been the rookie life since 2019. So that's not helpful to share anywhere. So yeah, I'm. I mean, all day long, I'm going to continue to preach that podcast websites are really where we need to go.
Speaker 2:But yeah, go ahead. You'd asked about mistakes. One thing I do see people do is, whoever your media host is, sometimes they'll I call it a jukebox. It's like it's a player with multiple episodes and so what they'll do they're like, oh, look at this, I can just put this on this page and then it updates. Every time I put out a new episode. The player shows a new thing and I'm done, and it is set it and forget it.
Speaker 2:It has absolutely I mean almost negative. It's so zero SEO. That's not getting you any help Because really at that point it's like somebody cut a little square in your website and stuck a player in it, but that player is actually on your media host, so all the text that's in that player and everything else is just there's zero SEO. So I always say treat every episode kind of like a blog. You know your show notes are your blog post and then you just throw a player in it and presto, you know, and then make sure to have your follow buttons there for Apple and Spotify and whoever else. But yeah, when I see people like, oh yeah, it's on my website and I go there and it's just that that little jukebox, I'm like, oh, okay, that's. That's better than nothing, but you're missing out on a lot of SEO juice yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I'm so curious, and this is one of the. This is one of those questions that I don't even know myself, but I've been getting asked a lot. It's like okay, with AI, and like the way that the world is changing, consumers are changing too. It's like where, where is SEO going? And I've seen so much of like, oh, seo is going to die, or SEO is going to be this, or SEO is going to be that, and I'm just a firm believer that, like I'm just going to keep showing up and do what's working while it's working. But I'm curious what's your take on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah it's, I hear that a lot. I don't know that Google's going anywhere anytime soon. I do know that every now and then I'll go there and there's some sort of AI, you know result and that's kind of like hmm, and what I've always done over the years is I write for people. You know I'll get these tools and you end up saying you know, if you're doing a show about, I don't know, snowboarding, and it's like every seventh word is like when you're snowboarding, you want to make sure that snowboarding is fun for you, because snowboarding and you're just like, okay, like that's not, I'm not writing for people, I'm writing for something that says you need to say snowboarding 87 times a paragraph and I'm like no, I'm not doing that.
Speaker 2:So I've always written for people, I've recorded for people, I'm trying to reach my audience. And it's funny because on a every now and then I'll have somebody come in and they're like hey, I want to do an SEO, you know, audit for you and I can make you rank. And they'll come in and like why are you ranked really good? And I'm like what are you using? And I go, I write for people. I go, I write for people, that's all I do? I mean, I occasionally will like when it's like there's plugins and WordPress, there's all sorts of stuff where it'll kind of give you a score and that's in pod page as well. And there are times I'm like, oh wait, if I use this keyword instead of that, you know I'll get a better score, and I'm like, all right, well, we'll do that, but I really don't spend a huge amount of time on it and I seem to rank pretty well. So it's one of those things where but it does make you worried.
Speaker 2:But again, 70% this is per Jacobs Media 70% of podcasts are discovered via word of mouth and so you want them to go. Oh yeah, it's called the you know Crystal Prophet Show, power Hour, you know zany time, whatever, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Oh, just, it's an Apple podcast, just go find it. I'm like, no, you don't want to say go find it. Definitely don't say go find it in Spotify. But if they send you to a website, there it is, and now you're in control.
Speaker 2:And then the other thing about having a website is the fact that you're now one click away To me. A website and email list go hand in hand, because you know, at the end one of the things I hear a lot of podcasters do that I go. That's not working because they're like, hey, follow me on Twitter X or Blue Sky or this, and that Don't forget to get my lead magnet. And, while you're there, leave a five-star review and you're like it's 17 calls to action. And really I'm starting to switch to. My call to action is here's my lead net magnet join my email list, because once you're on the email list, I can ask you all those other things you know and I'm in your one click away you're not on the treadmill, you know.
Speaker 1:So that's another advantage of both that website and the email address. Well, I mean, I feel like we could go. I mean, just from that little snippet there, we could go in like 17 different directions, because I told Dave before we started I was like I love talking to other podcast nerds because these are the things that I think about all the time and the things that I tell people and I'm in conversation with podcasters. But I know you said that you just recently got back from PodFest. I wasn't able to go this year, but tell us, was there anything that was fun or exciting or something that you know is noteworthy to take away? If you know no one's ever been to that event, or if just, what was podcast or pod fest 2025 like for you?
Speaker 2:well for me because I've gone to every one. It's like summer camp. So when I go back there, uh it's, you know, I'm seeing all sorts of new people as as well as catching up with old people that I've I've known forever. Um, the thing I love about pod fest or podcast movement or any of these, you don't have to explain to anybody what a podcast is yes, and you and you're instantly like oh what, and it's one of the best communities.
Speaker 2:Because I've had people like, oh well, what I did was, you know, I advertised in Overcast for a month and got you know 27 more subscribers or whatever, and everybody's sharing their secrets. And it's not like well, if I share my secrets, well then you'll use them too. It's like no, it's like we're not really competition, and so that part was great. I'm trying to think of the. I got involved with the Hall of Fame. I got to induct two people, which was fun. And if you want a fun exercise, take somebody that you've known for 19 years and summarize them in two minutes, because us podcasters, getting to the point, not always our strong suit, so that was kind of fun. And I think, if there's anything big takeaways, buzzsprout had the best swag. They had a key chain that was laser engraved as you waited. That was pretty cool. That was like well, that beats a t-shirt. So that was laser engraved as you waited. That was pretty cool. That was like well, that beats a t-shirt. So that was kind of fun. But the biggest thing I try to tell people when I'm there is you can kind of see the new people and by like day three they're kind of walking dead, zombie-ish, because there's just so much information and they're just overwhelmed.
Speaker 2:And I was talking to this one woman. She'd come up to the Podpage booth and I said how's it going? She's like I don't know. I'm like this is. It just seems like so much. And I said, well, I just need to let you know. You're a hundred percent normal. Right now. I go, you're sitting there thinking everybody else gets this and I don't, and I don't even know where to start. I go, that's 100% normal. I said, just figure out, like make a list of all this stuff that you just heard, figure out where you want to start and just you know how do you eat an elephant, one bite at a time. I'm like just do that one at a time and go from there.
Speaker 2:But no, it was a good time. Anytime you can. You know, see the. If you can tell me the eye color of your listener, you're in the right spot. And so for me, you know that is my target audience. So it was a good time. And I kind of sound like right now I'm battling a cold. But after PodFest I sounded like this, because the last night they always have this big blowout DJ party, and so you're going to people going tell me about your podcast, and so you wake up on Sunday. I woke up on Sunday. It sounded like James Earl Jones. I was like Luke, I am your father, you know. It was like geez, where'd my voice go? It's crazy.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. Well, it's so funny too because it's so different, because I've been to so many different creator events and, man, there's nothing like a pod fest or a podcast movement, because you go and you just realize I've been talking for eight hours straight or people have been talking at me. My husband went with me one year it was the 2023 in Vegas and it was evolutions for a podcast movement and we went and he was like, yeah, this will be fun, you know I'll go with you, and it was, you know, our spring break and we enjoyed it. But he was like, oh my gosh, there's just people talking everywhere and I was like, babe, what did you think? We literally love to talk, and so that's what I love about going and experiencing this. So, for anyone, this is a PSA for anyone that's listening.
Speaker 1:If you haven't been to a podcast event and you're looking to really be in community with more people, then I highly recommend it. Are you planning on going to any other big events that our listeners may see you at this year?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to both Podcast Movement and Podcast Movement Evolutions and I'm kind of looking for other ones. I know Social Media Marketing World is out there. That's not. I mean that has a podcasting kind of you know promotion vibe. So I've been to that one. That's amazing where you go to these after parties on an aircraft carrier, you're like wait what you know. So, but some of the ones I used to go to, like there was one in Philadelphia called Joe Pardo's event it was podcast Mid-Atlantic back in the day and I don't think Joe's doing that anymore. And then there was one in Washington that was PodFest, something, something, and it's gone. So if you're thinking of starting an event, there's room. So it's a lot of fun. And then you always end up with. I always say if you get business cards or if you're scanning QR codes, follow up with those people, cause I know there's a few that I want to have on my show. So that's going to be a fun too. It's great networking.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I've actually had several people that I've met at other conferences here. You know they get to talking and you're like, oh, like we're kind of in the same niche or we're kind of doing the same, we're helping the same kind of person, like let's do some promo swaps, or you know, like let's let's collaborate in some fun way. I think that that's what's, that's what's really cool about it, and I think that it just exponentially expands your network whenever you can find those key people. And it's not going to be every person that you meet, but that's okay. Like you're just you're, you're here to get help along the way. Like lean into those resources. I'm curious, like for you know, I'm just totally putting you on the spot and asked you to prepare this but who's like the biggest? Like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I met that person in the podcast space. It could be a celebrity in any other kind of realm, but podcasting is really the catalyst that led you to meeting someone important in your life.
Speaker 2:Boy, that is a good one. Probably last year, because I again I got to induct somebody into the Hall of Fame and Dr Drew was the emcee. And so I'm just backstage hanging with Dr Drew and you're like, okay, that's Dr Drew. I'm trying to think of other people. I remember once I was at I think it was Podcast Movement, and there's a bunch of podcasters in Tennessee. It's Michael Hyatt. If you've never read his book Platform, that's a good one. Ray Edwards who's this master copywriter? And both those guys were in this room because Michael was going to speak. And I sat down and I look over and there's Ray Edwards and I'm like, oh my goodness, it's Ray Edwards. He's sitting right there, like you know, and so I talked to him and Ray's just the nicest, kindest soul you've ever met. He's like, oh, dave, I've heard of your show and I'm like Ray Edwards heard of my show. And then there was something where they went to Q&A and so I asked Michael Hyatt because he was presenting a question.
Speaker 1:He's like oh hey, dave, I listened to your show and I was like, no, I didn't call him.
Speaker 2:He listened to my show. Yeah, that's it. And I still I was. Who was I just listening to? Blueberry has a show, so it was Todd Cochran and Dave from his team and they were talking about PodFest and he's like. I got to meet Dave Jackson, which to me I was like, well, big deal. But the fact that they said my name on a show, I was like, oh, they said my name. So, yeah, we all get giddy when somebody gets recognized or they say our name and things like that. So it's been fun, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I was going to say I think it just goes back to. It's something that we say on the show all the time too is like how can you create that experience for your audience and your listeners? Like you know whether it's having like a shout out, especially, you know, if you have an email service provider connected to your pod page, because everyone's going to go check out pod page. Like I already told Dave, I was like I've got my affiliate link set up.
Speaker 1:We are absolutely promoting pod page because if you wanted to start a website in 2025, that's one of your big goals Go use PodPage, because it really is so simple. And I want you to figure out a way to also connect your email service provider so that you can have a feedback loop to get feedback on your podcast, because so many people tell me, like I see that people are listening, but I don't, I don't know. Like to your point earlier, I was like is it good? Can you go listen to this? Can I get feedback somehow?
Speaker 1:So I want everyone to do that, that way that you can have this rapport with your audience, where it's not just oh, I can see there's 17 people listening in Texas or 25 listening, you know, in in the UK. Like no, you're like, oh, that's probably Dave, like he's, he's over there listening, you know, and I know that that's him, because I think that it is cool to give those shout outs on your show and have that personal connection because, just like Dave and I, like I get so giddy. I remember it was 2021 podcast movement and I stood up and asked Mark Cuban a question there you go.
Speaker 1:That is still like solidified as like a huge highlight. I went home and told the kids of course they're like you mean from Shark Tank. They don't know him from the Mavs or anything else they're like from Shark Tank. I was like, yes, mark Cuban, so it's like these little things that you can do to create magic in your own podcasting journey, and I think that Dave is such a great example. I'm curious how many podcast episodes if you had to guess have you published in your career?
Speaker 2:Over 3,000. Easy, oh, wow. I mean, the School of Podcasting has 960 something. Ask the podcast coach, your podcast consultant. I've started over 30 shows Now some of them coach your podcast consultant.
Speaker 2:I've started over 30 shows Now. Some of them lasted like. I remember one it was the customer service show and I think I made it to six episodes till it dawned on me, oh, that's my job, not my passion, and so that was the end of that. I started the Dates from Hell show on a dare. I was married at the time and myself and my ex-wife were swapping horror stories on dates and somebody said this should be a podcast. And we did it, and then we asked the audience to share their stories and then it dawned on me that A what's the number one fear among people? Oh, that's right, speaking in public. And what do I want you to do? Throw yourself under the bus. So it's hard to do a kind of crowd show, a feedback show, when you don't have a crowd yet. And so we had just started. We both had maybe four stories, so we made about eight episodes and ran out of stuff. But you're talking about, you know, getting your audience involved.
Speaker 2:Podpage has a built-in voicemail tool and again, it's all about your brand. So yourwebsite com slash voicemail. And recently Tom Webster, speaking of the Hall of Fame, was just inducted last week, has a great book called the Audience is Listening and in it are a bunch of really great questions to ask your audience to really find out. You know, what do you think of my show? And so PodPage approached him and said hey, tom, you have all these questions like can we use those and make them a survey in pod page. And he's like can you put a link to my book at the top of that on the dashboard? I'm like, yes, we can. And so if you're looking for a way to find out, does my audience even like this stuff? You've got to build in survey. And again, we make it. It's just your websitecom slash survey and then you can actually add I think there's 19 questions and I don't know that I would use them all, but you can pick the ones you want. And then there's five at the bottom you can customize completely to you.
Speaker 2:And so many times I kind of don't get that because I, if somebody comes to me, they're like, yeah, my podcast isn't growing the way I want. And I'm like, okay, well, what did you see when you did a survey? And they're like I haven't done a survey yet. I'm like, well, you know, the easiest way to find out if your audience likes it is to ask them and I realized that spooky, you know that's when people find out. You can go into podcasts, connectapplecom and see how far people listen and they're like, oh amazing. And I'm like, well, it can also be soul crushing. Just so you know. When you go in and you see like wow, they bailed after 42%, like well, you know that's the way it is. So yeah, but feedback's awesome and important and it's fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think data is your friend right.
Speaker 1:Like everyone, people are so scared. But at the end of the day, the way that I look at it, it's like data. It's just the truth. That's right. It's facts. It's not the emotion of being scared to create or the emotion of interviewing someone like it is just facts and then you can decide what you want to do with it. But if you haven't gone into the different tools and really analyze things, then you may not know. You're just kind of shooting, you know darts in the with a blindfold on and you're not really sure what's going to happen, and so I totally agree like have these tools set up.
Speaker 1:And you just actually made me think I was like oh, I need to do a YouTube, like on pod page, like a deep dive on like how to do all this because surveys are my jam.
Speaker 1:Like I love to talk about surveys and I think that they are so helpful, but I love that you said like it's just a built-in feature that people can utilize, because that just it removes the technical pieces that you have to think about. All you have to do is like, hey, like you can even start with these questions, like here these are the ones that typically perform well in a survey and they'll give you helpful information that can really take that audience feedback and you can just do so much with it.
Speaker 2:But I've seen people that they sent out this survey and this guy does a daily show and it was really starting to burn him to a crisp because it's a lot of content and a lot of and one of the feedback he got from a survey was like, yeah, we don't really need a daily show, can we make this like maybe two times a week? And here he was all worried that if he, you know, backed down like and it's like no, they said it was more than one person was like we love the show but, like you know, I haven't really finished with the first episode and I got three more in the, you know, waiting for me to listen to. So he was like, oh, all right, that's good to know, because you know he was really burning himself out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, I want to go back to you were talking about starting and stopping multiple podcasts.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I want to ask you a question that would be helpful for someone, let's say, is probably in the first three to six months of their podcast. They've gotten up, they've hit that critical number of like OK, I'm past 10 episodes, I'm still publishing, I'm still publishing. But what I see so often in my audience is they hit this number around 15 to 20 and they're like oh, I think I picked the wrong audience or I think I picked the wrong topic or I think I picked the wrong title.
Speaker 1:Like they start having this like kind of buyer's remorse of like oh, I don't know that I'm doing this correctly, or maybe they have gotten feedback. And I'm just curious, you know, with all the podcasters you've worked with, or maybe even in your own experience, like what do you do when you get to that point You're kind of wrestling with do I continue on this journey and things will get better, or do I just go ahead and reanalyze things and see what the next steps are?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. The cause to me I always say my little bumper sticker is your podcast is a recipe, it's not a statue. And so you may have thought, well, I'm going to do this and this and this, and all of a sudden you do it for six months. You're like, wow, I'm attracting a bunch of people that I had not intended to attract. And that's when you go okay, are these people going to get you to whatever your why is? And I always say you need to know your why and your who. And the hard part is it's what can I talk about to this who people? So, because you can't say men 25 to 50, because there's a big difference between a 25-year-old and a 50-year-old. So, when you got your niche and you got your why, when you overlap that, what can I talk about? That's either going to educate or entertain the who, but slowly move them towards my why. Because if you don't get your why, you burn out. If you don't educate and entertain, then you never grow your audience. So that's the hard part, and wrong is relative there. Maybe you know air quotes here. Then you have to figure out okay, but can these people get me to my why? And it's either like okay, these people want to talk about topic B, I'm talking about topic A, but they want to talk about topic B. Okay, do I want to talk? Do I have the same passion for topic B? And if the answer is no, I don't really want to talk about what they want to talk about. Well, you've attracted kind of the wrong audience and it's going to be hard to do, but you need to tweak your message because you're just attracting the wrong people and that means the people that are here are probably going to leave, and that's so hard to go ugh, you know. Or if these people, oh, yeah, this will work.
Speaker 2:I know I had a friend of mine and he was doing a show, something about fitness, and it was supposed to be fitness for men, and he goes, everybody's listening is female. And I'm like, okay, like, does that matter? And he's like, well, no, because in the end I can help females too. And I'm like, well, there you go. But sometimes, if you're looking for a specific audience but yeah, my first podcast was, I rebranded three times because it just it started off it was the musician's cyber cooler, because back then, back in the day, you know, it was cyberspace.
Speaker 2:And then cyberspace was really synonymous I can't even say that word to cyber sex and I'm like, oh well, we got to lose the cyber word. So then it was the musician's cooler Big picture of a water cooler tagline, where musicians come to trade advice and people are like, so like a wine cooler? And I'm like, no. And then I rebranded it again the marketing musician, where musicians come to trade it and they find, oh, okay, I get it now. So that's why I always say your podcast is not a statue, you can rebrand it, it's your show. That's one of the beautiful things about it. And so sometimes we do things and it doesn't work out the right way. And that's where some people are like oh, it didn't work, I failed. No, no, that's called a lesson and you learn that doing this results in this. So let's try a different stimulus and see who it attracts and go from there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think we have that same approach. That's the first time I've heard that it's not a statue, it's a recipe. That's fantastic. The thing that we say around here is there are no rules in podcasting. There's guidelines, but there's no rules. You get to make and break the rules at any point of your show and I think that people get so grounded in, like a YouTube video that they watched or a podcast episode that they heard one time, like five years ago, and they're locked into.
Speaker 1:This is the only way that I can do it. So I love the recipe metaphor because it is. It's like you want to switch up some ingredients. Maybe you want something a little bit spicier, or maybe you're like, ooh, I'm ready for the mild stuff. Like it's been a little hardcore around here. I want to do something a little bit easier. So I love that. This has been so incredible, dave, and, like I said, this has been just, I think, great insights to a podcasting journey and what it can look like, but also how. Again, I'm just going to keep saying it is like everyone needs a podcast website in 2025. Like y'all have, dave has stripped all the excuses of why you can't start, so we're going to have links to check out PodPage and you know it's like I've already said, like it's I have an affiliate link with it. It's I shout out PodPage in my course Profit Podcasting because I want you to have resources that make it really simple, really easy for you to get started. But, dave, I have a few rapid fire questions.
Speaker 2:I will do my best.
Speaker 1:It's okay if you get a long winded, because I think that you're going to have some great answers for these.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So the first one is what piece of advice would you give to a brand new podcaster or content creator?
Speaker 2:Don't worry about making money. You don't monetize a podcast, you monetize an audience. So focus on growing your audience. I would spend my. My bumper sticker is spend a hundred dollars on a microphone and then spend a hundred hours figuring out who your audience is and what they want.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh Like okay, that's the quotable for this episode.
Speaker 2:That was fantastic.
Speaker 1:That's really good. I feel like you've said that a few times.
Speaker 2:I have. That's what I said. It's my bumper sticker.
Speaker 1:I love it Okay, my next question is a two-part question.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:What is the dream podcast you would love to be on and who is the dream podcast guest you would love to interview?
Speaker 2:Oh man, that's a good one. Joe Rogan wouldn't suck right, uh, to be on his show, be in front of a couple million people at the same time. Um, co-host, hmm, that's a tough one. I was going to say I got to interview Adam Curry on stage once. That was fun, uh, cause that's the guy that invented podcasting, and back in the day he was on MTV. I would love and this is only because I'm Dave and I play the guitar I would love to interview Ted Nugent because A he's very polarizing. So you either love the guy or you hate him, and I would just. I got to meet his wife once. That was as close as I got. But that would be something I would love to interview, just because I know enough about him from growing up to where. It'd be fun to just in some ways get his actual, honest answer. But other ways there's an easy way to poke that guy's buttons and just have him go off.
Speaker 1:So I think that'd be fun and just see what happens. It'd be fun just to watch, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, those are great, those are great. And then my last question is do you consider yourself a perfectionist Boy? That's a yes and no. I aim for perfection, but the problem is I should batch record, but I do not. So it is Wednesdays we record this.
Speaker 2:I have an idea of what I'm talking about, but my show goes out Sunday night, it's basically Monday. It's Sunday at midnight, which is Monday, and so there just comes a time when I've done all the work I have all week and it's like all right, this is as good as it's going to get, and most of the time I'm pretty happy with it. But there are times when I'm like, oh, you know, I should have you know that kind of thing. But it's funny, there are those shows that you think are just absolutely perfect, right, and you're like, oh, cannot wait for people the feedback I will wake up to tomorrow morning. And you wake up, it is just nothing but crickets.
Speaker 2:And then I put one out. I kind of hurried one together because I was in PodFest and I had to have kind of two episodes ready, one for the normal week and one while I was traveling and I thought I kind of was like oh, I always preach, I'd rather have a late show. That was good than an on-time show. That was meh. And I was like this episode's kind of it's good enough, all right, you know. And I got home and I'm like that was a really great episode. I was like really Because in my head I was like really Because in my head I was like it's okay and so yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:I forget what the question is. Now, that's funny. No, it's great. It was all about being a perfectionist?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yes, I try to be. Yeah, I aim it perfect. And when you miss, you land on really, really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:I think that that was just such a fantastically honest answer, because I think that so many people get stuck in that they want to have something perfect. They want to have something perfect and they're the ones that listen or educate themselves on podcasting for a year. I mean, it's a person that you've met multiple times at PodFest and they still like they haven't ripped off that bandaid and just put their show out. So we would love to see y'all create imperfect shows and just be consistent with it, because that's how you have that longevity over time and you can build that audience. But you got to show up and you got to just get it going. So thank you so much, dave. This has been incredible today, and where can everybody find you and learn more about all the fun things that you're doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my main website is schoolofpodcastingcom. We mentioned that we have multiple shows, so I have a website just for that and that's at powerofpodcastingcom.
Speaker 1:Okay, perfect, we're gonna link to those in the show notes and, like I said, we're gonna talk all about PodPage some more. This is super fun to have you and, yeah, thanks for being on.
Speaker 2:Crystal, always great hanging out with you.
Speaker 1:I told you I guess I should say I warned you from the beginning that we would definitely be talking about PodPage in today's episode and we didn't disappoint, right? We shared so many twists and turns of Dave and I's story and it was just so much fun to catch up with him and chat with him again, because it's one of these things that I love about what I do as a coach and someone that's in this space, because someone would, on the surface or at face value, say, well, aren't you and Dave kind of competitors, aren't y'all doing the same thing? And kind of you know like, isn't that a little weird? Absolutely not. And it's what I love about this industry and the things that we do, because collaboration is incredible and I actually saw this post that Amy Porterfield did recently where she was talking about how the collaborations in her journey have really amplified her message and the people she's trying to help and the things that she's trying to achieve. So I am leaning full into this and I can't wait to collaborate with other people in the podcasting space. But Dave was a big get and I am so excited that he came on and shared so much wisdom about his journey and I hope that it inspired you, that if you're just getting started and you're wondering, you know, is this podcasting thing going to pan out for me? I hope that you found value in today's conversation because it's worked out pretty well for both Dave and I and we're really excited to keep going and helping you on this journey. So make sure you check out School of Podcasting. Go check out Dave's content. If you loved his personality, please go check him out and all the fun things that he's doing.
Speaker 1:Again, I am a proud affiliate of PodPage and I encourage you to go check it out. You can go to crystalprofitcom forward slash PodPage to check out what they have to offer. I know that there's many people in our Podcasters Connect community that use Podpage and they're really excited about it. They're like I can do some integrations on the back end and make it just the way that I want it to be, and it's not a heavy lift for me.
Speaker 1:It's not this super big, clunky website that I have to figure out or figure out web design to get it to work. They can get up and running really fast. So I hope that I have to figure out or figure out web design to get it to work. They can get up and running really fast. So I hope that you go check it out Again. That's crystalprofitcom forward slash pod page to check it out. But thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If this is your first time tuning in, make sure you hit that subscribe or follow button wherever you are listening. Go check out Dave, see what he is up to and, as always, remember, keep it up. We all have to start somewhere.
